Atlanta's Staggering Growth since 2000 (Marietta, Smyrna: live in, costs, versus)

[architect77]

The Washington Post's story with maps underscores that the Atlanta region needs more mobility and roads are the only feasible means to sustain the ongoing growth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...n-growth-maps/

We need more connectivity and redundancy.

Mass transit is welcome too, but it's clear that the growth in the bigger region cannot be accommodated alone by mass transit, not to mention the trillion dollar cost and 75 years it would take to build.

The purple on the map shows the unbelievable amount of growth in the region over the last 20 years.

atl groeth by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

[primaltech]

While I don't live in ATL anymore, I did my time in traffic, and I think these are some of most needed transportation items:

Roads:

-A northern arc bypass freeway connecting 75 to 85, somewhere north of the suburbs. Not for local use, and with minimal exits (like just at 400 and 575 and 985 and not much else). Ideally you'd have a whole outer bypass loop miles outside of 285, but the top end is the most crucial. This would take a lot of the trucks and out of state traffic off of 285, freeing that up for more share of local capacity.

-More road connections in the suburbs, more back exits, more options and alternatives. There's so many examples. Just more connections in general. New roads, extensions, realignment, improvements, new exits, bridges, etc.

-Similar at a smaller scale, in the core of the City of Atlanta and other urbanized and denser areas, there needs to be more and better street grid. More connections and overall logic. Less of the streets that dead end, forcing you to get on a different road to go north for 200 ft, just to get on another street in order to continue east.

-Tolls. Lots of congestion or time variable tolls on all the freeways. Encourage more buses and transit that way, and less single occupant driving.

-Larger sidewalks and better pedestrian experience. Not just in the city, but in the suburbs too. Encourage more walking.

Transit:

-At least double the MARTA heavy rail system. At least. It should go to Alpharetta, Six Flags, Stonecrest, south of the airport, and ideally through the main northwest and northeast population/commercial corridors in Cobb and Gwinnett.

-Light rail to Emory, loop all around the Beltline, streetcar on Peachtree St, etc. Connecting all these areas directly to the heavy rail backbone.

-Regional commuter rail, connecting (re-connecting) all the historic railroad downtowns, where there is some actual density.

-High speed rail from downtown ATL, with lines to Chicago, New York, Houston, and Miami. With minimal stops, just the big towns like Nashville, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Louisville. ATL could be the southeast regional bullet train hub, and airport.

-Re-think buses. Just in general, start over from scratch with buses. Fewer but better stops, straightened routes staying on main corridors, higher bus frequency and other speed improvements, and a lot more riders.

[MichiganderTexan]

Originally Posted by architect77

The Washington Post's story with maps underscores that the Atlanta region needs more mobility and roads are the only feasible means to sustain the ongoing growth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...n-growth-maps/

We need more connectivity and redundancy.

Mass transit is welcome too, but it's clear that the growth in the bigger region cannot be accommodated alone by mass transit, not to mention the trillion dollar cost and 75 years it would take to build.

The purple on the map shows the unbelievable amount of growth in the region over the last 20 years.

atl groeth by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

Pay article can't read it

[Yoski]

Originally Posted by primaltech

While I don't live in ATL anymore, I did my time in traffic, and I think these are some of most needed transportation items:

Roads:

-A northern arc bypass freeway connecting 75 to 85, somewhere north of the suburbs. Not for local use, and with minimal exits (like just at 400 and 575 and 985 and not much else). Ideally you'd have a whole outer bypass loop miles outside of 285, but the top end is the most crucial. This would take a lot of the trucks and out of state traffic off of 285, freeing that up for more share of local capacity.

I would think the bulk of the truck traffic comes from sea ports to the south. Wouldn't a southern bypass make more sense, from south of the metro from 75 heading to 75 and 85 to the north of the metro?

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by Yoski

I would think the bulk of the truck traffic comes from sea ports to the south. Wouldn't a southern bypass make more sense, from south of the metro from 75 heading to 75 and 85 to the north of the metro?

Not really. The top end gets the most congested, even with more lanes. But, ideally 285 needs to be the inner loop, and there should be a bypass loop all the way around.

They think they can solve all the problems with those new managed lanes, but I'm doubtful.

[MichiganderTexan]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Not really. The top end gets the most congested, even with more lanes. But, ideally 285 needs to be the inner loop, and there should be a bypass loop all the way around.

They think they can solve all the problems with those new managed lanes, but I'm doubtful.

I'm 100% certain they can't solve the problems with managed lanes. Really short-sighted thinking.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by MichiganderTexan

I'm 100% certain they can't solve the problems with managed lanes. Really short-sighted thinking.

No one solution will solve everything, but the managed lanes have definitely helped. I remember seeing a study before the pandemic that demonstrated that commute times even on the regular lanes of I-75 had fallen by several minutes.

An outer Perimeter would be really helpful but I doubt it will ever happen.

[MichiganderTexan]

Originally Posted by evannole

No one solution will solve everything, but the managed lanes have definitely helped. I remember seeing a study before the pandemic that demonstrated that commute times even on the regular lanes of I-75 had fallen by several minutes.

An outer Perimeter would be really helpful but I doubt it will ever happen.

It's a very short term solution, without alternative routes I expect the commute times to go to back where they were or exceed those times within in a few years.

[cranberrysaus]

-A northern arc bypass freeway connecting 75 to 85, somewhere north of the suburbs. Not for local use, and with minimal exits (like just at 400 and 575 and 985 and not much else). Ideally you'd have a whole outer bypass loop miles outside of 285, but the top end is the most crucial. This would take a lot of the trucks and out of state traffic off of 285, freeing that up for more share of local capacity.

Sadly will probably never happen because it would be political suicide for whomever proposes it again. Incremental improvements to Hwy 20 seems to be the next best thing and it appears to be happening at various points.

-More road connections in the suburbs, more back exits, more options and alternatives. There's so many examples. Just more connections in general. New roads, extensions, realignment, improvements, new exits, bridges, etc.

I agree. Feels like much of the suburbs are still tied together with former rural farm roads. Particularly unless you're traveling near say Hwy 20 or 92, commuting across suburbs can be a pain.

-Similar at a smaller scale, in the core of the City of Atlanta and other urbanized and denser areas, there needs to be more and better street grid. More connections and overall logic. Less of the streets that dead end, forcing you to get on a different road to go north for 200 ft, just to get on another street in order to continue east.

Agree as well but I don't know if there's any easy way to fix this.

-Tolls. Lots of congestion or time variable tolls on all the freeways. Encourage more buses and transit that way, and less single occupant driving.

GDOT seems to agree with you on this one. I wonder if they'll ever extend tolls inside the perimeter (again).

-Larger sidewalks and better pedestrian experience. Not just in the city, but in the suburbs too. Encourage more walking.

Agreed. There's no reason especially suburbs should be built anymore without sidewalks.

Transit:

-At least double the MARTA heavy rail system. At least. It should go to Alpharetta, Six Flags, Stonecrest, south of the airport, and ideally through the main northwest and northeast population/commercial corridors in Cobb and Gwinnett.

I've heard a westward extension of the blue line is the most "shovel ready" one. Of course it all depends on Cobb, but even extending it to Fulton Industrial would be nice. East extension further into DeKalb seems the next most likely. I'm skeptical if Alpharetta will ever happen.

-Light rail to Emory, loop all around the Beltline, streetcar on Peachtree St, etc. Connecting all these areas directly to the heavy rail backbone.

Fortunately these seem to already be in the planning stage.

-Regional commuter rail, connecting (re-connecting) all the historic railroad downtowns, where there is some actual density.

If the Clayton commuter line ever happens it will be a nice example for this model.

-High speed rail from downtown ATL, with lines to Chicago, New York, Houston, and Miami. With minimal stops, just the big towns like Nashville, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Louisville. ATL could be the southeast regional bullet train hub, and airport.

Florida and Charlotte definitely, with possibly connecting to the Northeast Corridor in DC. Nashville would be nice as well. I don't think Chicago, Indy, or Houston really make sense versus travel time for flying.

-Re-think buses. Just in general, start over from scratch with buses. Fewer but better stops, straightened routes staying on main corridors, higher bus frequency and other speed improvements, and a lot more riders.

Fortunately it sounds like MARTA has hired a consultant to completely rethink the existing bus network.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by MichiganderTexan

It's a very short term solution, without alternative routes I expect the commute times to go to back where they were or exceed those times within in a few years.

Where would you put alternate routes, however? Since we're on the subject of managed lanes, let's consider Cobb County north of the Cobb Cloverleaf. Where would you propose that another limited access highway or even regular four-lane highway with stoplights go? The area 3-5 miles either side of I-75 is already highly developed and densely populated, and the land acquisition costs alone would be astronomical. Maybe you could try to build elevated express lanes high above Cobb Parkway, as was done recently on Gandy Boulevard in Tampa, but 41 is so close to both 75 and the existing toll lanes than this would likely be redundant.

Maybe you could do something to the East-West Connector to make it more effective at carrying traffic from Midtown and the Westside to northwest Cobb. The Atlanta Road corridor is a really good trajectory but I don't see that getting any wider or becoming even partially limited access; land acquisition would be too expensive and community opposition would be tremendous, particularly near downtown Smyrna and the Marietta Square.

I really don't see a lot of viable options for expanding existing roads or creating new ones, so I think the toll lanes were probably the best move, other than substantial rail links, which, unfortunately, seem increasingly unlikely.