Young Professional Moving from San Diego (Austin, Allen: buy, luxury, school)

[mark311]

Originally Posted by Aquitaine

Your anecdote has no statistical significance.

I'm surprised that you have such faith in the cost of living index. I do think it has major flaws. It does not account for demographic differences. How can you apply the same index to a young professional making $100K like the Op of this thread and then apply the same index to a lower income family of 5 making $40K per year? Everything is different. You're basing your entire argument on an index that is flawed.

I still think that a young professional making $100K per year like the op who enjoys night life isn't much better off in Austin instead of San Diego regardless of what the cost of living index states. I seriously doubt that he buys 4 gallons of milk per month. People in San Diego expect Texas to be dirt cheap because it's Texas. I'm trying to help educate them that they really need to do their homework in regards to their exact lifestyle because it's possible that the Austin area won't be dirt cheap for their wants or lifestyle regardless of what the cost of living index states.

[Aquitaine]

How can you apply the same index to a young professional making $100K like the Op of this thread and then apply the same index to a lower income family of 5 making $40K per year?

Because how much things cost have nothing to do with your income.

COL has nothing to do with lifestyle choices. It doesn't say 'you must spend $x.' It says 'things cost x.'

I get that you don't like it, but it's the nationally accepted way of looking at these things and it's what c-d uses.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mark311

I'm surprised that you have such faith in the cost of living index. I do think it has major flaws. It does not account for demographic differences. How can you apply the same index to a young professional making $100K like the Op of this thread and then apply the same index to a lower income family of 5 making $40K per year? Everything is different. You're basing your entire argument on an index that is flawed.

Have you actually looked at the comparison calculators with their line-by-line details? That's what makes the comparison valid in a relative way.

Take groceries, for example. The cost of groceries is calculated on a standard market basket, and you can get the details, and make whatever adjustments are necessary for your lifestyle. But the PROPORTIONAL differences are likely to be reasonably accurate. So while the average groceries bill in San Diego being 17% cheaper in Austin may be less significant to a single guy than to a family of four, the part of his paycheck allotted to groceries will be similarly affected.

It's more the intangibles, like the savings possible from not having to buy the status car and the status watch, etc. that can't easily be inferred from COL indexes.

[mark311]

Originally Posted by OpenD

So while the average groceries bill in San Diego being 17% cheaper in Austin may be less significant to a single guy than to a family of four, the part of his paycheck allotted to groceries will be similarly affected.

It might be, but it's too hard to determine on a broad level. Groceries might be 17% cheaper if I shop at the HEB on Braker in Austin compared to the Randall's right across the street. My groceries might be 17% more than Randall's if I shop at Whole Foods. My groceries might be cheaper than all of those places if I shop at the "Food 4 Less" grocery store in Hazard Center and also.....wait for it......Trader Joe's.

Here's an ad for one of the Food 4 Less stores in San Diego. If you're concerned with that cost of living index difference in grocery prices, just go to the right place to get better prices. Where are the details in the cost of living index to show if they priced groceries at Ralph's (expensive San Diego grocery) or Food 4 Less (cheap San Diego grocery) or one of the ones in-between? What stores did they use for the Austin area? There are just too many factors involved that make the index flawed in my eyes.

Food4Less Weekly Ads

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mark311

There are just too many factors involved that make the index flawed in my eyes.

An index doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. For general comparison purposes it's enough to know that ON AVERAGE groceries are 17% cheaper in Austin than in San Diego.

[CptnRn]

Here is another Austin versus San Diego thread in which I provided some detailed comparisons. http://www.city-data.com/forum/13959486-post29.html

Somehow the racial chart links got messed up on that one so I'll redo it here.


I'm adding some additional comparisons below:

Estimated median house/condo value 2008: ..SD $505,300 .......AUS $210,600
Median gross rent in 2008: .............................SD $1,245...........AUS $892

Housing available / price range 2009.........SD..........AUS
$100,000 to $124,999..................................1262.... ...8798
$125,000 to $149,999..................................1978.... ..14516
$150,000 to $174,999..................................3660.... ..17919
$175,000 to $199,999..................................5183.... ..12201
$200,000 to $225,000.................................12842.... ..20176 <----This is a nice house in Austin.

Rent paid by renters 2009
SD................................................ .................................AUS

[mark311]

CptnRn, do you have any more recent data that isn't based on home values, but on median sales prices? I know that TX is a non-disclosure state, but it would interesting to see a comparison of actual sales and not values. The Union Tribune shows that median home prices in San Diego are at $315K. It's still more, but quite different than the median home value number that you posted from 2008. The more I dig into these numbers, the more it seems that they are way off from reality.

EconoMeter: Will home prices rise in 2012? | UTSanDiego.com

[Aquitaine]

Things like the price of groceries are actually indexed based on area averages. They don't send a guy out to Ralph's in one location and come up with a number. Stores have to submit sales tax receipts and do a ton of analysis on their sales data. COL is designed to be immune to, say, Whole Foods opening up a single store in a neighborhood. If Whole Foods drove a cheaper competitor out of town, then you might expect COL to change, but the fact that you can shop cheaply or shop expensive is already accounted for: that's why it's an index.

Your counter-examples merely show that it is possible to spend the same in either city. No-one disputes this. If you are a single guy who earns $100k then you can move from a decent neighborhood in San Diego to the heart of Austin and live in such a way that your budget won't change at all. But this is where you're going off the rails: that doesn't make San Diego "cost the same."

SD housing prices also fell more because they rose a lot more in the bubble, though by 2009 you are already seeing a much more realistic comparison. You aren't digging into numbers: you're cherry-picking examples to support the idea that cost of living is somehow comparable between the two cities when there is not a single metric supporting this theory. Gas. Groceries. Housing. Government fees. Austin will be quite happy to take your money if you WANT to spend as much as you HAVE to spend in SD, but that's why outliers are ... well, outliers.

[mark311]

Originally Posted by Aquitaine

Things like the price of groceries are actually indexed based on area averages. They don't send a guy out to Ralph's in one location and come up with a number. Stores have to submit sales tax receipts and do a ton of analysis on their sales data.

Hmmm. So I thought they actually did send a volunteer out to different stores to manually get the prices in each area and human error is involved. You're saying that stores have to submit tax receipts to a non-federal organization with their sales data? I find that very hard to believe. I'd like to see any sources that you have on that.

Originally Posted by Aquitaine

you're cherry-picking examples to support the idea that cost of living is somehow comparable between the two cities when there is not a single metric supporting this theory.

But, cherry-picking examples is exactly what the cost of living index does. I don't care about how much it costs to bowl on a Saturday night, use vet services, or buy Lipitor because I never do those things. My point is that throwing out a one-size-fits-all cost of living index as a reply to people on how Austin is cheaper to live in than San Diego isn't accurate for everyone. They should all perform their own analysis on their own costs. Anyone can do it now with something like mint.com and a smartphone. I know exactly how much I spend down to the penny and can accurately determine my own "cost of living index". People don't need to rely on a flawed system created in the 60's.

You threw out a specific BMW model and honestly I didn't know what exactly to expect other than my own experiences of Austin auto dealers being more expensive than what I'm used to paying for a car. It turns out that you can get that car for $2000 cheaper than Austin in San Diego or $4000 cheaper if you travel 60 miles to Ontario. The cost of a BMW might be more important to someone than the cost of tennis balls. Since I've been in Austin, I've purchased new vehicles in Dallas, Arkansas, and San Antonio and I saved thousands each time by doing that.

The cost of housing is definitely cheaper in Austin. However, this might not be a huge difference for renters. The cost of gas is 50 cents per gallon cheaper in Austin so if you use 60 gallons of gas per month, you save $30 per month in Austin. Those are measurable and pretty much everyone needs those things. A lot of the other items in the cost of living index aren't going to be applicable to everyone.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mark311

But, cherry-picking examples is exactly what the cost of living index does. I don't care about how much it costs to bowl on a Saturday night, use vet services, or buy Lipitor because I never do those things.

Fine, then simply cross out THOSE LINES on the detailed listings. Notice that some list BOTH rent and housing purchase price comparisons? Nobody uses both. Cross out the one that doesn't apply to you. Same diff with Lipitor and everything else.

Originally Posted by mark311

My point is that throwing out a one-size-fits-all cost of living index as a reply to people on how Austin is cheaper to live in than San Diego isn't accurate for everyone.

As I recall there is not a single category of items on the comparison tables in which San Diego is cheaper than Austin. For most people... those very people for whom the comparisons are designed... that is useful information. As has been mentioned before, if you are an outlier, someone whose lifestyle is not typical, the comparison will not be as useful.

Originally Posted by mark311

They should all perform their own analysis on their own costs. Anyone can do it now with something like mint.com and a smartphone. I know exactly how much I spend down to the penny and can accurately determine my own "cost of living index".

I rest my case. This proves you are totally an outlier. Your method would not be useful at all to the majority of average users. They need... and use... the standard tables in the everyday calculators. It's close enough.

Originally Posted by mark311

Since I've been in Austin, I've purchased new vehicles in Dallas, Arkansas, and San Antonio and I saved thousands each time by doing that.

I rest my case. This also proves you are totally an outlier, and your method would not be useful at all to the majority of average users. Most people won't bother with that.

Originally Posted by mark311

The cost of housing is definitely cheaper in Austin. However, this might not be a huge difference for renters.

Why would it not make a big difference for renters that rents in Austin are currently calculated as 51% of the rents in San Diego? Does it really matter if that figure is a little high or a little low? The cost of housing, on average, is much lower in Austin.

Originally Posted by mark311

A lot of the other items in the cost of living index aren't going to be applicable to everyone.

Again, use the items that are applicable in the tables, ignore the rest. They EACH have a relative index, and it varies by category. Use the ones that apply.