Austin bag ban and the state legislature (Dallas, Irving: sale, attorney)

[ImOnFiya]

Originally Posted by gpurcell

You don't understand Section 5 at all. It basically requires gerrymanders to create districts with a sufficient number of minorities to elect a candidate of their choice.

Yes, I am aware of that fact and I believe I stated that in layman's terms. Many of the current Democratic state and federal representative districts are Section 5 protected. [In fact, Austin's beloved Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D- San Antonio/ Austin) is in one such federal representative district which pitted him against then candidate Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-San Antonio).] Without Section 5, state legislatures in these southern states (including Arizona) could bring up state and federal representative maps gerrymandered to heavily favor republican candidates without federal approval, perhaps wiping some remaining Democratic seats entirely state-wide. What do you think I was saying? I am not seeing a difference between us here.

[triwing]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

It is sad when the legislature has time to even deal with such minor issues....

This isn't a minor issue at all.

For one thing, the ban was passed by city council late at night, on a weekday, using very questionable statistics. Furthermore, this has already created other consequences... groceries stores and other businesses OUTSIDE of Austin city limits will get increased business while businesses inside Austin will suffer. There will also be increases cases of food poisoning and whatnot due to unclean bags.

I've also read somewhere that the bags only account to about 6% of total waste. If the the city council was that concerned about recycling and waste issues, they would have banned used baby diapers instead (which I don't agree with banning those either but that's besides my point.)

The bag ban is in conflict with a 1993 state law as well.

The City of Austin is literally putting a gun to business owner's heads and telling them they cannot provide a plastic bag (which are often reused for other purposes) to a customer under a voluntary transaction, and if they do, they are fined big. If they don't pay the fine, their businesses are shut down by gun point.

Human interaction needs to be voluntary, not through coercion or force.

[Austinite101]

Originally Posted by triwing

This isn't a minor issue at all.

For one thing, the ban was passed by city council late at night, on a weekday, using very questionable statistics. Furthermore, this has already created other consequences... groceries stores and other businesses OUTSIDE of Austin city limits will get increased business while businesses inside Austin will suffer. There will also be increases cases of food poisoning and whatnot due to unclean bags.

I've also read somewhere that the bags only account to about 6% of total waste. If the the city council was that concerned about recycling and waste issues, they would have banned used baby diapers instead (which I don't agree with banning those either but that's besides my point.)

The bag ban is in conflict with a 1993 state law as well.

The City of Austin is literally putting a gun to business owner's heads and telling them they cannot provide a plastic bag (which are often reused for other purposes) to a customer under a voluntary transaction, and if they do, they are fined big. If they don't pay the fine, their businesses are shut down by gun point.

Human interaction needs to be voluntary, not through coercion or force.

Actually it is minor. The vast majority of Austinites have already begun to get into the routine of bringing reusable bags and it seems that it went over smoothly as well. The State of Texas has been sticking it's hand into Austin politics for decades and this is just another example.

[atxcio]

Originally Posted by triwing

This isn't a minor issue at all.

Yes, it is a minor issue for the state legislature, one which IMO they have no business wasting their time (and our money) with. It's a local government issue, one that cities can and should be allowed to deal with as they see fit. As you pointed out, folks can take their business outside the city if they oppose the ordinance. The state legislature should be concerned with state-wide issues, and only those, and keep a very light touch on everything else. After all, they regularly ask the same of the federal government -- interfere as little as possible.

And as far as the city council vote, being on a weekday -- well, that's the only time they meet. That's completely normal, all city decisions are made that way. Late night? Also, completely normal. City council meetings often run late into the evening, primarily due to the lengthy citizen input throughout the meeting. And the plastic bag ordinance was implemented very slowly, voted in a full year before implementation. Finally, the vote was unanimous -- no dissent from any of the publicly elected council members. Following the passing of the bag ban, there have been city council elections, and those same members who were up for re-election were overwhelmingly voted back in for another term.

Now, other cities are free to make their own decision regarding this issue. Sunset Valley has decided to follow suit: Sunset Valley follows Austin's lead on bag ban - YNN - Your News Now, and now Dallas is considering it again as well: Dwaine Caraway wants Dallas to ban plastic bags, as Austin has | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News

“Austin has set a tone,” said Caraway. “It’s such a problem here in the city, where you see the bags flying everywhere — in the trees, in parks, everywhere.

“What’s wrong with paper bags? We had them all your life and all my life, and you didn’t see them everywhere. … Let’s try to follow in Austin’s footsteps.”

So, I say we leave it up to the cities to decide what works best in their communities.

[Gorfml]

this ban will be gone in a year...

[Trainwreck20]

this ban will be gone in a year...

Yeah, just like the smoking ban....it was also going to destroy local business as people took their patronage outside the city....

[Gorfml]

Nah this is different...wait and see...

[verybadgnome]

Funny thing is I came from a place with a similar local/state political split. Northern Virginia was and is way more liberal than the rest of the state, yet I cannot think of any examples where the state lege dictated to Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church or Fairfax how they should run their communities. For example, I don't recall there being any kick back when Falls Church introduced an ordinance in 1991 that all city trash customers must be provided recycling service. Maybe a good example for the congressman from Muenster and his ilk to follow.

Part of it has to do with the fact that there was less political polarization twenty years ago, but I also think the legislature in Virginia had more respect for local control and legislative experimentation within certain confines.

[llkltk]

I agree, gone in a year. It's a joke! I pay for bags at HEB, $1 for the whole order. I'm still getting the plastic bags. I asked if anyone else was doing it, and they said A LOT of people pay the $1 and get the old plastic bags.

[CarnivalGal]

I heard another interesting take on the bag ban the other day - that the city is at least partially motivated by the tax revenue it generates. There is no sales tax on bags. There is sales tax on the reusable bags and the bags they charge $1.00 (or .10 each in the case of WalMart). I never thought about it, but I guess they are getting some revenue from it.