Question about this traffic signal (right turn on red arrow) (Post: legal, safe)

[Need4Camaro]

This one: https://goo.gl/maps/KeQaiDarixoHY4scA

Is it legal to turn right on a red arrow here? I know of course right on red ball is legal after you come to a complete stop unless a sign otherwise states, but typically a red arrow (in any direction) infers a protected turn where it may be illegal to turn against the light, even a right turn.

I've crossed through this intersection quite frequently and most drivers either roll through, or blatanly ignore the red arrow. Are they guilty of running a red stop light? The reason I believe this is a protected turn is because of the double right turn lane into right of way of the access road without slip lanes which creates a blind spot for traffic in the far right lane.

[10scoachrick]

Here's what I believe(and there are pages of discussion on this in various states)...in the case of a red arrow or flashing red arrow, traffic must stop at the "stop line" or crosswalk and may proceed only when it is safe to do so(considering cross traffic and pedestrian traffic).

From what I can gather, it would take a sign explicitly stating "No turn on RED(arrow)" to mean traffic could not continue(after stopping) when it is clear. Stopping is required for a red "ball" or arrow; so the folks rolling through are certainly running a red light(the curving and merging nature of the design likely suggests to them it's like so many right turn lanes in other intersections that are separated by markers or medians).

IF the city wants traffic to hold even on the red arrow, I believe the "No turn on RED" signage would be required.

[Snowpacked]

It really does not matter since traffic enforcement in the city of any kind is non existent. Posted signs are the gospel.

[Westerner92]

I imagine they made the lights arrows to avoid any of the straight-through traffic getting confused. Without any clarifying signage, I say treat it like any other right arrow signal. Stop at the bar when red; proceed when clear. They should just add a yield sign and change the red arrows to red balls. Or add a "no right on red sign", depending on what they meant.

[Need4Camaro]

What's really weird about it is they have the flashing yellow arrows as well which activate when traffic continuing straight gets a green ball so it implies proceed with caution (or yield to right of way) while there technically is no other traffic that can have right of way. Dont understand why it cant just stay green.

[10scoachrick]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

What's really weird about it is they have the flashing yellow arrows as well which activate when traffic continuing straight gets a green ball so it implies proceed with caution (or yield to right of way) while there technically is no other traffic that can have right of way. Dont understand why it cant just stay green.

I think that particular intersection has a "u-turn" for northbound 183 frontage road to loop under the highway and feed into that same southbound frontage(with no signal, IIRC...just a yield sign). I guess it's their way of saying "look out for SOMEthing" !

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

I think that particular intersection has a "u-turn" for northbound 183 frontage road to loop under the highway and feed into that same southbound frontage(with no signal, IIRC...just a yield sign). I guess it's their way of saying "look out for SOMEthing" !

True. It's just traffic making those U turns typically dont have protected right of way.

When I first started driving there, I've on several accounts accidentally took the 45 tollroad ramp mistaking it for the 183 SB ramp ... followed by some colorful language ... hated when I did that. Since you cant get off till Parmer I usually just ate the tolls and took MoPac.

[Westerner92]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

What's really weird about it is they have the flashing yellow arrows as well which activate when traffic continuing straight gets a green ball so it implies proceed with caution (or yield to right of way) while there technically is no other traffic that can have right of way. Dont understand why it cant just stay green.

I just looked it up in the federal manual. Apparently the red arrow means the movement is prohibited, right and left alike. If right on red were allowed, it would have been a red ball. The flashing yellow, I believe, is to make them aware that they need to yield to pedestrians needing to cross the slip lane. Is it ever green?

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

I just looked it up in the federal manual. Apparently the red arrow means the movement is prohibited, right and left alike. If right on red were allowed, it would have been a red ball. The flashing yellow, I believe, is to make them aware that they need to yield to pedestrians needing to cross the slip lane. Is it ever green?

Yeah. It turns green (oddly) while the traffic proceeding straight has a red ball after traffic turning left onto the access road loses their protected arrow even though the two nodes dont conflict. When traffic continuing straight gets a green ball then right turns get a flashing amber arrow.

I was figuring the red arrow did mean right turns aren't allowed to proceed but I guess it really needs more clarification because most drivers either roll through it or stop briefly and continue if it's clear.

[ScoPro]

Just don't run over any of the homeless beggars that are camped out in those trees next to the overpass.