Back to stage 4 (lease, restaurants, floor)

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by dicipher

I always do me. I don't sit there and blame people that were selfless for a year for me. I realize they made sacrifices and have a right to make decisions on what they put in their bodies. I also understand that blaming people is not a solution and if a vaccinated person says they don't gaf because they got theirs (shot), things are not going to improve. I understand that the rules have changed and vaccinated people can pass the virus on, so for those that believe in "the science", people will need to at least temporarily go back to wearing masks (and I'm fine with that). I won't be fearmongering and trying to imply that being unvaccinated is a death warrant when in reality, the unvaccinated have improved tremendously regarding hospitalizations and their likelihood of dying of the virus would be akin to hitting the Super lotto. I recognize that the new tangent is to focus on long hauler issues and I also recognize that no one knows the long range impact of the vaccine. I also am not going to get into childish labeling (stereotyping) by using terms like antivaxxer understanding that many people are actually very responsible and don't deserve the derogatory attacks they are receiving. I will continue to wear an N95 mask, do my shopping at times when most people don't (typically 6am), and avoid crowds. And when I eventually get the Novavax vaccine, I won't be judgmental of others.

Yeah, I'll do me.

Here's the really crazy thing - you and I agree on most of the above. I just don't care for your delivery style, I guess.

As for "the rules have changed and vaccinated people can pass the virus on," I have known that since before I got vaccinated, which was in March so the rules changed a long time ago, in pandemic world anyway.

I also don't sit there and blame people that (actually it's "who" but whatever) were selfless for a year - I was one of those, I guess, since I've always followed every mandate and every rule and basically most suggestions all that time - as much for other people as for myself. I don't want to pass this on to anyone else. I also socially distance, for the record, everywhere. It's not that difficult actually.

No fearmongering here. No stereotyping either.

However, I do believe that people are ultimately responsible for their own health so if they are high risk they should definitely take actions that reflect that and frankly, I wish they wouldn't be around me as I socially distance, get the vaccine, etc.

Since I rely on the science, I believe the science when I am told repeatedly that if I'm fully vaccinated, I don't have to wear a mask in some settings (so I don't). If the science changes or my situation changes, I'll act accordingly. If that means I have to wear a mask in more places, or all the time or whatever, I will.

By the way, an N95 mask is made to protect the wearer, not necessarily others. So there you have it - that's why many masks with exhalation vents are not allowed by law. I mean, I actually have some but quit wearing them months ago because they didn't protect others as well as they protect me.

Within reason, I plan to continue to protect others, but ultimately it's not my responsibility, nor is it in my realm of abilities, to keep everyone in my sphere of influence or whatever disease free.

[Austin97]

no one knows the long range impact of the vaccine, but on balance it is likely to be none. We do know some percentage of people have extended impacts of the virus.

Unfortunately most people are terrible with assessing risks.

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

Here's the really crazy thing - you and I agree on most of the above. I just don't care for your delivery style, I guess.

As for "the rules have changed and vaccinated people can pass the virus on," I have known that since before I got vaccinated, which was in March so the rules changed a long time ago, in pandemic world anyway.

I also don't sit there and blame people that (actually it's "who" but whatever) were selfless for a year - I was one of those, I guess, since I've always followed every mandate and every rule and basically most suggestions all that time - as much for other people as for myself. I don't want to pass this on to anyone else. I also socially distance, for the record, everywhere. It's not that difficult actually.

No fearmongering here. No stereotyping either.

However, I do believe that people are ultimately responsible for their own health so if they are high risk they should definitely take actions that reflect that and frankly, I wish they wouldn't be around me as I socially distance, get the vaccine, etc.

Since I rely on the science, I believe the science when I am told repeatedly that if I'm fully vaccinated, I don't have to wear a mask in some settings (so I don't). If the science changes or my situation changes, I'll act accordingly. If that means I have to wear a mask in more places, or all the time or whatever, I will.

By the way, an N95 mask is made to protect the wearer, not necessarily others. So there you have it - that's why many masks with exhalation vents are not allowed by law. I mean, I actually have some but quit wearing them months ago because they didn't protect others as well as they protect me.

Within reason, I plan to continue to protect others, but ultimately it's not my responsibility, nor is it in my realm of abilities, to keep everyone in my sphere of influence or whatever disease free.

In my case, the people in my sphere of influence are my mother and my 10 year old. In the case of the 10 year old, there is no vaccine for her yet. In the case of my own mother, I can't by default just leave it to her own personal responsibility. Suffice it to say, I'm sending my daughter to school this fall with baited breath. Until the poobahs conclusively say that vaccinated people cannot spread, then I need to go back to risk mitigation mode. It sucks, but what am I gonna do. I'm actually very frustrated, because I got myself vaccinated on the premise that I wasn't going to be a carrier. In the past month, I finally felt comfortable to go maskless. And now this crap from the health authorities. It's just frustrating....but again, until those unvaccinated people close to me are vaccinated (especially my daughter, who has yet to get sick at all due to our measures) then I've got to scale back.

She gets sick easily, catching probably every virus that's hot at the school. Maybe that has improved since she is older, but she will be among other unvaccinated children, many of whom will not wear masks. I do not trust that she will be vigilant about wearing the mask AT ALL TIMES. Kids tend to have their noses hanging out, etc. So yeah, I have to protect her as best as I can by mitigating risk

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

Since I rely on the science, I believe the science when I am told repeatedly that if I'm fully vaccinated, I don't have to wear a mask in some settings (so I don't). If the science changes or my situation changes, I'll act accordingly. If that means I have to wear a mask in more places, or all the time or whatever, I will.

Science can give you probabilities, but science cannot tell you if you should wear a mask. This is where many people are confused. Politics comes in to play when you want a particular outcome, from there science can tell you actions you can take to achieve that outcome. When scientists tell you you have to wear a mask or you dont have to, that is politics not science. They are assuming a particular goal (e.g. minimizing deaths). Science is reasonably good at predicting the future, but bad with morality and values.

At some point it was dont flood the hospitals; we should be as open as possible to the point that hospitals arent flooded (that is a political statement, not a scientific one).

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

By the way, an N95 mask is made to protect the wearer, not necessarily others. So there you have it - that's why many masks with exhalation vents are not allowed by law. I mean, I actually have some but quit wearing them months ago because they didn't protect others as well as they protect me.

There are a variety of n95s. Some have vents and those theoretically wont protect others. But cloth masks dont provide very good protection and might be about the same as vented n95s. n95s without vents have bidirectional protection but are definitely hard to breathe in.

[dicipher]

Originally Posted by Austin97

N95s without vents have bidirectional protection but are definitely hard to breathe in.

Yes they are, but that is what I use (in addition to glasses) and it does have bidirectional protection.

[dicipher]

Originally Posted by Austin97

no one knows the long range impact of the vaccine, but on balance it is likely to be none. We do know some percentage of people have extended impacts of the virus.

Unfortunately most people are terrible with assessing risks.

I don't it's terrible at all (I actually think it's quite rational). I do think it's splitting hairs over two scenarios with miniscule risks when proper protocols are followed.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Austin97

Science can give you probabilities, but science cannot tell you if you should wear a mask. This is where many people are confused. Politics comes in to play when you want a particular outcome, from there science can tell you actions you can take to achieve that outcome. When scientists tell you you have to wear a mask or you dont have to, that is politics not science. They are assuming a particular goal (e.g. minimizing deaths). Science is reasonably good at predicting the future, but bad with morality and values.

At some point it was dont flood the hospitals; we should be as open as possible to the point that hospitals arent flooded (that is a political statement, not a scientific one).

OK so here's my situation.

I don't have a young child or an elderly parent or anyone at a higher risk around me on a regular basis. I live with another adult who has already had the virus and she's old enough to make her own choices, and I am not going to mask up in my own home. She can if she likes, or she can get the vaccine, or whatever, to lessen her risk, but I'm a clean person who has been vaccinated and so there's that.

I will wear a mask, socially distance, fill in the blank, in many public places but I will not wear a mask in all public places. The reason is that science has told me that the ODDS of me passing on the virus unknowingly are very low to begin with. If anyone else is worried about me giving them this virus, I guess they need to take whatever precautions they see fit to take because the odds are very low that I'll actually pass this on to them anyway.

From the CDC yesterday:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...e%20pandemic.\

Safer Activities for You and Your Family

If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did before the pandemic without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by laws, rules, regulations, or local guidance.
Members of your family who are unvaccinated, have weakened immune systems, or underlying medical conditions need to continue to take steps to protect themselves from COVID-19.

If you’ve been fully vaccinated:

You can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic. You can resume activities without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.

If that changes, I'll change my practices. Otherwise, no.

[dicipher]

Look like stage 5 likely by this weekend

[Trainwreck20]

My neighbor the NP says all her ICU patients are now under 50 this round, which is markedly different from the last peak.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

My neighbor the NP says all her ICU patients are now under 50 this round, which is markedly different from the last peak.

From what I read, though, the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths are considerably lower than any other peak before.