Betting on a new project to combat homelessness

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by whereiend

Agree with you. These housing programs may help individuals, but the scope of the overall problem is too large to feasibly solve that way.

The actual problem we experience (e.g. public safety and cleanliness) is actually much easier to solve: enforce laws including the camping ban, public drug use, and prosecute petty crime while aggressively picking up garbage. And the way the "progressive" left has made this out to be a supposedly immoral position (that is prioritizing the lives of the 99% of us that are law abiding hard working citizens) is ridiculous.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by whereiend

Agree with you. These housing programs may help individuals, but the scope of the overall problem is too large to feasibly solve that way.

The actual problem we experience (e.g. public safety and cleanliness) is actually much easier to solve: enforce laws including the camping ban, public drug use, and prosecute petty crime while aggressively picking up garbage. And the way the "progressive" left has made this out to be a supposedly immoral position (that is prioritizing the lives of the 99% of us that are law abiding hard working citizens) is ridiculous.

Would rep this post twice if it allowed me to.

[Trainwreck20]

Eh, it is more of a practical issue when it comes to 'enforcing laws'. Say we arrest several hundred people for violating the camping ban. Now our jail is full of formerly homeless people with no ability to pay fines or anything, so we either keep them in jail (that does kinda solve the homeless problem) or let them go and they go back to camping. Repeat. We just don't have the jail room to hold all those people and no leverage to make them want to leave.

Historically, the local LE would probably beat them up or otherwise abuse them to make them leave, but that is not really an option anymore, right?

[Need4Camaro]

@TR -- Here is my honest and respectful opinion over the homeless situation.

Historically I tend to agree with what you say as I've read alot about Austin PD LEO issues.. and read some pretty dirty things.. ..and I do think many of those are real issues with the LEO mainly in the aspect that they lack proper oversight in some departments and run the operation more like a gang.. ..dirty business.. (although I disagree with the proposed solutions the City Council have come up with).. ..but lately.. ..the Local LE seems to handle them with a lot of consideration and today I feel they act out the way they do because there is no repercussion for it.

As for the homeless, I witnessed one beating up on the entrance to the HEB on Congress and Oltorf (before they closed it to relocate the store across the street). Security demanded that he stop and leave, he refused to do so and kept beating on the walls and door and threatening passer-byers. When I came out that store, there were two LE's around him and were generally mild mannered toward him. He wasn't in handcuffs or being bullied but was politely being asked who he was, his where abouts, ect. He wasn't ever handcuffed or even detained or put into a cruiser.

Another at the entrance of a hotel off of Research Blvd, although he was not violent.. just loitering ..the officers were once again peacefully investigating him to see if he needed aid or what kind of aid he needed. None threatened him, none arrested him. Now would this have happened in the past? possibly yes.. ..LEO are generally not very well trained to handle mentally incapacitated people. I will even go as far as showing a video of how they handled a woman who has dementia that committed thievery at a WalMart...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KElP...ZW1lbnRpYSA%3D

Very sad story.. ..adrenaline got the best of the cop.. he thought the woman was lying and resisting.. the woman on the other hand wasn't sure what she was even doing or why she was being detained.. LAWFULLY speaking, the cop was within his rights and probably even thought he was right as well, which is why he did what he did, but situational awareness was key here and cops generally are not taught very well how to monitor for mental issues. I completely agree that more officers need this training and also need more accountability for their mishaps when dealing with the public.

Now here are my issues when it comes to how homelessness is being handled...

- There are NO repercussions regardless of how they act or behave.

You can't have people, regardless of their state of mind acting out in public, especially in harassing manner doing whatever they want to do and excuse it only because they are mentally ill. You need some way of separating them from the public if they cannot or will not act in a civilized manner like law abiding citizens are required to do. Key word, required.. ..the laws of civility apply to me and I break them, I am going to face consequences, why should I expect any differently for anyone else? Laws are made to protect people. Of course, how they're enforced is another matter entirely.

Perhaps they should not be sent to 'Jail' but there does need to be something in the way that generally sends a message that crossing boundaries with people is a bad idea, otherwise more will do it and more will get away with doing it.. ..and I'm sorry but I have seen alot more in the way of the homeless harassing folks than I have seen cops harassing folks, and that is because the general terminology of 'homelessness' is only half correct for many of these folks. What they are, are bums. I know thats not the nicest way to put it and I generally had my empathy for them in the past, but many (not all, but many) of these are people who are generally addicted drugs, alcohol and other vices or are chronically homeless and seek that lifestyle. There are those in the mix that get priced out, lost their job / family / had a break down and for those I have a great deal of empathy for but that brings me to my next issue...

- The city does not appear to be helping either classes of these people.

Letting them camp out infront of property and businesses is not helping them, nor is letting them sleep under overpasses. I do like the plan proposed in the OP much more than previous proposals but lets not pretend that someone isn't getting their cut in the plan especially if it involves federal funding. That goes for those hotels as well.. ..and in more extreme cases where camps devaluate properties and corporations eventually buy them up. The city appears to be more interested in taking in the money to aid these people while applying minimalistic efforts, or just enough to make it appear like they are addressing the problem, but not enough to actually solve it... ...essentially they are grifters... I haven't seen much effort in separating the classes of these people between the mentally ill and unstable, the chronic homeless, or the misfortunate.. ..and none of those types of people should be intermixed in one shelter, many will leave because the streets are safer.

-------------------------

What they need to do is design a way to isolate the categories of homelessness and treat them accordingly. If you're the type that has had multiple offenses with harassing or offending the public, then they need to isolate them from the public. The cops don't need to be rough on him, and they don't need to take him to jail, but a place where they can rehabilitate that person until he is mentally conditioned to interact with society.

If someone has had a bad falling out, lost their job, ect then they need to give him an address so he can find work until he can get back on his feet, but also ensure there are checks and balances in place to ensure that he's doing the needful to get back on his feet.. regardless of how long that may or may not take.. ..and that isn't wrong. The same thing happens when we go on unemployment. It's a necessary thing to do at times, but we aren't expected to stay on it and if we did we'd end up consuming the resources up from other people who have legitimate problems.

If someone is chronically homeless - work with that person to get them back into the mindset of being a productive member of society again. Those people need aid in order to get themselves back together.. and I don't see that the city is doing that. I instead see that the city is encouraging that lifestyle.

[Trainwreck20]

but a place where they can rehabilitate that person until he is mentally conditioned to interact with society.

These essentially do not exist today. That is root of the problem.

The 'other' categories also need support systems, although there are more of those type of 'recovery' programs.

As for abuse by LE, I mean much further back than recently. Probably more back toward the 70s, but working into the 80s in some places. It was 'normal' to persuade someone to leave by just beating them up and letting them know you would do it again if they came back. I have very little problem with today's police - most are empathetic and the (relatively rare) issue that arises is more due to misunderstanding or 'bad cop'.

[ScoPro]

N4c. ——->