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Old 08-13-2016, 08:43 PM
 
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The Swedes feel just like you do.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ-n...ature=youtu.be
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Old 08-13-2016, 08:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa2011 View Post
I see what you're saying, I just happen to disagree with it. Wholeheartedly.

Australia could have several times its population, from whatever ethnicity.... and the world would be better for it.

IMO.
How do cultures that have values which are completely at odds with each other coexist peacefully?

They don't now. They never have in the past and never will in the future. It's pie in the sky nonsense.
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Old 08-14-2016, 01:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
How do cultures that have values which are completely at odds with each other coexist peacefully?

They don't now. They never have in the past and never will in the future. It's pie in the sky nonsense.
Most "cultures" in Australia are not at complete odds with each other though, and Australia is a relatively peaceful place.

In fact, only 2 percent of Australians strongly disagree that people from different backgrounds get along in their locality – whilst over 85 percent agree that multiculturalism has been a good thing for Australia (Scanlon Foundation 2016, pp. 7-15).

To hate Australia's multiculturalism is to hate something that has been paramount to Australia's success.
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Old 08-14-2016, 02:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fish & Chips View Post

To hate Australia's multiculturalism is to hate something that has been paramount to Australia's success.

Exactly. Australia has never been a single, or mono-cultural country, even in the very early days white settlement.
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:17 AM
 
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It is not about where Australia is today, it's the direction in which it will lead. Again, immigration is a good thing, encouraging immigrants to keep their old culture rather than adopt a common culture in their new home will not end well. It might take a while, but the outcome is inevitable.

Australia certainly does have a culture. Every country has subcultures that exist depending on the geography and the background of the area one is in, but Australians still have a cultural bond, a sense of national pride--for now.
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Old 08-14-2016, 11:57 AM
 
3,423 posts, read 4,386,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
How do cultures that have values which are completely at odds with each other coexist peacefully?

They don't now. They never have in the past and never will in the future. It's pie in the sky nonsense.
There aren't that many cultures in the world that are diametrically opposed to Australia's values, as in, the Australian Constitution, legal system, etc. Looking around the world, I don't see it. The vast majority of immigrants are eager to live by those values. Anyone opposed to those values, whether they are immigrants or native-born Australians, would have to face the consequences of breaking laws, obviously.

For generations, a small number of people have panicked at the "foreign values" being brought into their country by different immigrant groups. The U.S. and Canada used to have "No Irish please" advertised on job notices. People at one time didn't want Italians, Polish, Germans, or Jewish immigrants moving into their communities. How much of the current anti-immigrant rhetoric is just more of the same paranoia about anyone who's "different"?

Finding a certain "mix" of immigrants can improve integration (which isn't quite the same as assimilation). Singapore is quite cosmopolitan with different religious groups in different proportions, which they try to keep consistent, and they enjoy social and political stability.

Of course, I don't know what sort of immigrants in particular you're opposed to allowing into Australia.

Policies can always be tailored to ensure that integration is encourage to the fullest extent possible.
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Old 08-14-2016, 08:56 PM
 
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Quote:
There aren't that many cultures in the world that are diametrically opposed to Australia's values, as in, the Australian Constitution, legal system, etc. Looking around the world, I don't see it. The vast majority of immigrants are eager to live by those values. Anyone opposed to those values, whether they are immigrants or native-born Australians, would have to face the consequences of breaking laws, obviously.
In the new multicultural world, I find large segments of immigrant populations who have no interest in adopting new values whatsoever. Their allegiance remains to their country of origin and not to their new home. For example, I personally know a Filipino who lives in Australia and he proudly tells me that he is a Filipino first and foremost. While not a likely scenario, what happens if Australia and the Philippines go to war? Should he be interred, extradited, put under watch? He could just as easily be from a country that has a more dicey relationship with Australia and the allegiance liability I bring up suddenly becomes very real.

As far as oppositional cultures, how does Sharia law integrate with Australian law? The two are not compatible. Many Australian Muslims have already declared their allegiance to Sharia Law and trouble is brewing. It's not just the Muslims either. These types of declarations polarize the kooks at the other end of the spectrum and you end up with a divided, adversarial society rather than a harmonious one. Trump's rise in the US is a product of this phenomenon.

Quote:
For generations, a small number of people have panicked at the "foreign values" being brought into their country by different immigrant groups. The U.S. and Canada used to have "No Irish please" advertised on job notices. People at one time didn't want Italians, Polish, Germans, or Jewish immigrants moving into their communities. How much of the current anti-immigrant rhetoric is just more of the same paranoia about anyone who's "different"?
In the past, there was always a push to integrate these immigrants and the immigrants themselves wanted to integrate for the most part. Yes, there were xenophobes who might have "panicked", but in the end the vast majority of the immigrants were integrated. The multicultural approach does not encourage integration, it encourages self segregation even if not mandated by law.

Quote:
Finding a certain "mix" of immigrants can improve integration (which isn't quite the same as assimilation). Singapore is quite cosmopolitan with different religious groups in different proportions, which they try to keep consistent, and they enjoy social and political stability.
Singapore does this by ruling with an iron fist. You dare not step out of line there. It's also one city, not a vast country. It's not a model I'd want to emulate, but to each his own.
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Old 08-15-2016, 12:07 PM
 
3,437 posts, read 3,304,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
In the new multicultural world, I find large segments of immigrant populations who have no interest in adopting new values whatsoever. Their allegiance remains to their country of origin and not to their new home. For example, I personally know a Filipino who lives in Australia and he proudly tells me that he is a Filipino first and foremost. While not a likely scenario, what happens if Australia and the Philippines go to war? Should he be interred, extradited, put under watch? He could just as easily be from a country that has a more dicey relationship with Australia and the allegiance liability I bring up suddenly becomes very real.

As far as oppositional cultures, how does Sharia law integrate with Australian law? The two are not compatible. Many Australian Muslims have already declared their allegiance to Sharia Law and trouble is brewing. It's not just the Muslims either. These types of declarations polarize the kooks at the other end of the spectrum and you end up with a divided, adversarial society rather than a harmonious one. Trump's rise in the US is a product of this phenomenon.

In the past, there was always a push to integrate these immigrants and the immigrants themselves wanted to integrate for the most part. Yes, there were xenophobes who might have "panicked", but in the end the vast majority of the immigrants were integrated. The multicultural approach does not encourage integration, it encourages self segregation even if not mandated by law.

Singapore does this by ruling with an iron fist. You dare not step out of line there. It's also one city, not a vast country. It's not a model I'd want to emulate, but to each his own.
you are mistaking allegiance to culture. you owe allegiance to the country you are citizen with, whether you like it or not. and when you are just a resident,you also owe a temporary allegiance to where you reside.


that's why there are laws about treason
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Old 08-15-2016, 07:26 PM
 
6,064 posts, read 6,019,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1xolisiwe View Post
The bullying culture in the work place needs to change. There are also too many incompetent managers who have become managers simply because there was no one else available.
Very fair comment. The level of so many in management positions is atrocious to say the least. I've witnessed so many fail, but sadly at great cost at times due to their inability.
Bullying seems to be getting worse in certain areas as completion rises. It can be carried out in different forms of course, not always overtly.


Without exterior protections of a sort, one can only imagine how much worse work place reality would become.
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Old 08-15-2016, 07:37 PM
 
6,064 posts, read 6,019,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
In the new multicultural world, I find large segments of immigrant populations who have no interest in adopting new values whatsoever. Their allegiance remains to their country of origin and not to their new home. For example, I personally know a Filipino who lives in Australia and he proudly tells me that he is a Filipino first and foremost. While not a likely scenario, what happens if Australia and the Philippines go to war? Should he be interred, extradited, put under watch? He could just as easily be from a country that has a more dicey relationship with Australia and the allegiance liability I bring up suddenly becomes very real.

As far as oppositional cultures, how does Sharia law integrate with Australian law? The two are not compatible. Many Australian Muslims have already declared their allegiance to Sharia Law and trouble is brewing. It's not just the Muslims either. These types of declarations polarize the kooks at the other end of the spectrum and you end up with a divided, adversarial society rather than a harmonious one. Trump's rise in the US is a product of this phenomenon.

In the past, there was always a push to integrate these immigrants and the immigrants themselves wanted to integrate for the most part. Yes, there were xenophobes who might have "panicked", but in the end the vast majority of the immigrants were integrated. The multicultural approach does not encourage integration, it encourages self segregation even if not mandated by law.

Singapore does this by ruling with an iron fist. You dare not step out of line there. It's also one city, not a vast country. It's not a model I'd want to emulate, but to each his own.
I don't find this particularly true at all. Most migrants share similar aspirations as do most born and raised here. Most want the best for their children and the ability to improve life materially from where they left.


If you want to continue to bring cultural traits into the country, in many respects more fortunate for the host country.
The assimilation of the post war years was a failure. People can and do life very productive lives by still maintaining cultural aspects from ' home', they will through association become more 'dual' in their living as time changes the dynamics. Their kids learn the host language. Become less of the old culture and the blending, has and continues to make Australia, a more interesting and open country.


Singapore is a paternalistic nation, authoritarian with strict laws, but far more diverse than Australia with Malay Muslim and Indian cultures maintaining cultural differences.
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