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I just got a new car, and while I was in the market (high end sports cars), I test drove standards as well as the available auto.
In the 911 4S, I saw no appreciable difference in the PDK and the true manual while I was punching the car around. The same with the GS 'Vette. The same with most of the cars I drove. The computers can actually be faster than you in certain situations. And frankly, since I do commute and sometimes have bad traffic, that did come into play BUT ONLY after I took into consideration any loss of performance (which I didn't really experience). The mileage was essentially the same (though that tends to matter less to me).
If I thought that not getting the manual was going to somehow detract from the driving experience or the power of these cars, I would TOTALLY get it and suck it up in traffic.
With the "DSG" transmissions, there is no need for a stick unless you want to "experience" the drive. These new transmissions have two clutches and negate the need for a torque converter, thereby limiting/eliminating the energy loss associated with an automatic transmission. In addition, it is impossible for a human to shift faster than the new technology, or so I have been told.
I just got a new car, and while I was in the market (high end sports cars), I test drove standards as well as the available auto.
In the 911 4S, I saw no appreciable difference in the PDK and the true manual while I was punching the car around. The same with the GS 'Vette. The same with most of the cars I drove. The computers can actually be faster than you in certain situations. And frankly, since I do commute and sometimes have bad traffic, that did come into play BUT ONLY after I took into consideration any loss of performance (which I didn't really experience). The mileage was essentially the same (though that tends to matter less to me).
If I thought that not getting the manual was going to somehow detract from the driving experience or the power of these cars, I would TOTALLY get it and suck it up in traffic.
I have no problem with your conclusions. But a 911 4S is a serious car that offers an advanced auto. How much more costly is the PDK? Maybe it doesn't matter on a $100K car.
1) Because I enjoy driving them.
2) Because they didn't offer a Z06 with an automatic.
3) Because it limits the number of people who ask to drive it.
You have cheezy friends who ask to drive your ultra expensive car?
Wow. Sorry...that sucks.
I will let people I trust drive my cars, but my rule is this:
If they can pay the full cash value up front of the car (and I trust their driving), they can drive it. Usually I offer to people I know are interested and I know would enjoy a test drive. Those people can all drive stick.
Merc63 - I think you are getting away from the spirit of this thread.
Take a car like an Accord - available with a manual or auto. Same engine. Drive and forget with the auto. The Honda manual is nice - and changes the car's benign character enough to be worthwhile. For me.
I'm not. I've agreed with everyone about stcok automatics behind small engine cars, like your Accord example. BUT, that Accord example is NOT the sum total of automatic, and if you use it to say this is what automatics can and can't do, you're wrong, pure and simple. If you havent driven anything ELSE, then you really don't have a point of comparison.
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I haven't found an auto yet in a mainstream car that doesn't hesitate then jerk a bit on a manual downshift.
Which is the point I'm trying to make. Get out of basic mainstream cars and see that there's a lot more to it than just a basic rental will give you. Have you driven a car like either of MY cars (the BMW Sport or the RX7 race car)? If not, then just because you haven't found one yet is meaningless as you haven't LOOKED for one yet. I
It's like saying you haven't found a flavor of ice cream you like other than chocolate because you've only looked in your local 7-11 freezer twice in the last year, and all they had was vanilla and chocolate chip mint. While the preferecne for chocolate over vanilla and chocolate chip mint is valid, there' snot enough point of reference to say what all oterh flavors of ice cream taste like.
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As for needing the downshift I described just a few times a year - OK. But who needs most of a car's potential but a few times a year. How many 911s are just driven to work because their owners like the status?
Again, the point is not about preference, but about having little expereince and point of reference and acting like they "need" it and do it every time they're behind the wheel. And I postulate that they really don't and that it's hyperbole to make them feel superior to people that KNOW they don't do that on their commute and so choose an automatic.
It's also about making claims that ALL or even MOST automatics act a certain way simply becaeu you haven't found a basic mainstream car yet with a decent automatic.
And worse, it's about acting like if you are in ANY automatic, it's because you are lazy and can't drive, or that the left pedal is the ONLY difference between being a driver and a passenger (which is the other thrust of these threads virtually every time they come up). And that particular attitude is BS.
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I also like knobs for volume and tuning on radios.
Fine. Have you made any claims about buttons yet? Have you said that those that like or own radios with buttons instead have poor musical taste or can't listen to the radio with as much clarity? No, I don't think you have.
Works for me! More fun to drive. Cheaper repairs, too -- although I've never had a manual shift that had to be repaired. Not so with the one automatic I've owned.
the one manual trans I neded to have repaired cost me $100 in parts. the one automatic I've need to have repaired needed $16 in parts. I built up a racing manual trans for $1500 and a racing automatic for $500.
And again, as I've said repeatedly, my daily driver BMW 740iL has an automatic, that has 185k on it, and is still on it's original fluid, never needing repairs. Counters your ONE example quite nicely.
So can we PLEASE stop with the "automatics always cost more to own/repair" mentality?
Most well built off road rigs and just about all competitive rock crawlers are automatics. The clutch is irrelevant.
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