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Four-way stops are neither as safe nor as efficient as roundabouts.
Roundabouts are as dangerous as any intersection. I've seen more accidents in roundabouts than I have at 4 way stops (I lived on the corner of a 4 way stop for most of my life).
Our city put in four roundabouts in one neighborhood to test its effectiveness. In the first week, they had 4 vehicle accidents and 2 pedestrians were hurt. After a year, there was more than 75 vehicle accidents and 30 pedestrians were hurt.
Not a single neighborhood since then, has put them in. What they found was the the residents started using other streets (speeding up and down much narrower streets) to avoid them completely. So they had started to install speed humps instead.
One of the roundabouts that was installed, was subsequently removed, after the residents complained about it. In its place, a 4 way stop was installed.
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Incompetent driving.
Yes, its always incompetent driving. Thought I don't know why you wanted to blame Drivers Ed for it.
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What is your opinion of people who sit in the passing lane on highways going the speed limit? I ask this because you previously broached the subject of "impeding traffic?" Do you think people who sit in the passing lane when they are not passing are dangerous drivers?
Yes. I think they are dangerous drivers. I personally don't, but I can't stop the person from doing it.
This is all taught in Drivers Ed. So why the pot-shot at Driver's Ed?
I used to have a job working in a large warehouse with all kinds of powerful electric vehicles whizzing around. Various kinds of forklifts, some of them pretty big & powerful; electric pallet jacks; techs & managers driving around in golf-cart-like things. There were very few rules, pretty much no signs, there was not even a 'drive on the right side' rule. You drove whereever you had a clear path. Accidents were very rare.
This has been precisely my experience. Teach people how to drive properly. I cannot count the number of times I have come behind driver's ed cars plopped in the passing lane or demonstrating other oblivious driving habits under the watchful eye of a driving "expert."
Roundabouts are as dangerous as any intersection. I've seen more accidents in roundabouts than I have at 4 way stops (I lived on the corner of a 4 way stop for most of my life).
Our city put in four roundabouts in one neighborhood to test its effectiveness. In the first week, they had 4 vehicle accidents and 2 pedestrians were hurt. After a year, there was more than 75 vehicle accidents and 30 pedestrians were hurt.
Not a single neighborhood since then, has put them in. What they found was the the residents started using other streets (speeding up and down much narrower streets) to avoid them completely. So they had started to install speed humps instead.
One of the roundabouts that was installed, was subsequently removed, after the residents complained about it. In its place, a 4 way stop was installed.
Yes, its always incompetent driving. Thought I don't know why you wanted to blame Drivers Ed for it.
Yes. I think they are dangerous drivers. I personally don't, but I can't stop the person from doing it.
This is all taught in Drivers Ed. So why the pot-shot at Driver's Ed?
You have proven you have absolutely no idea of what you are speaking. Listen to a traffic expert who is paid to consult with city governments and then get back to me about roundabouts.
Again, do you think all these drivers on the roads who cannot handle the most rudimentary of maneuvers, the ones who become flustered if they must move out into an intersection to turn left on a green light for instance, do you think they suddenly became incompetent after driver's education? No, they observed poor driving habits in others, had some of them reinforced in driver's ed and now practice them on the road.
Incompetent drivers do not become incompetent after leaving driver's ed programs.
Yes, DRIVERS do become incompetent after leaving drivers ed. They become incompetent, becuase they know that they are no longer being "tested" for their skills and knowledge of the road. They do become incompetent over time, because human nature is to FORGET if you are not practicing it everyday.
I played the flute, for 9 years. I was first chair for my Middle school band and in High School, and performed in a small wind quartet. We played at various concerts and shows that were pout on.
After high school, I haven't touched my flute. Its been nearly 20 years. I can barely remember the keys for certain notes, or how to achieve them. I thankfully remember how to read music, because I deal with music reading in other aspects of my life, but I would have to re-take lessons to remember how to play the flute.
Same with the guitar. I played the guitar when I was in middle school. Today, I can barely remember the chords except for some basic ones, that was "ingrained" in me when I was young. But I would need to get a chord book just to remember some of the finger positions. I can't even remember what notes to tune my guitar to.
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We all must take them and in order to receive our licenses, we must be approved.
When I was learning to drive, Drivers ed wasn't a requirement.
Even today, if you plan on getting your license, and you're over 18 years of age, you are not required to take Drivers Ed. Only take a written test, and a road test. And the road test doesn't test you on EVERYTHING. Just to see if you have the ability to drive a car and follow SOME of the rules of the road.
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I agree completely with your final paragraph. If standards were upheld, however, a huge percentage of the public would not receive their licenses in the first place, nor have them renewed,
Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you can't keep up with the program, then well, you'll have to find other ways of getting around.
You have proven you have absolutely no idea of what you are speaking. Listen to a traffic expert who is paid to consult with city governments and then get back to me about roundabouts.
Again, do you think all these drivers on the roads who cannot handle the most rudimentary of maneuvers, the ones who become flustered if they must move out into an intersection to turn left on a green light for instance, do you think they suddenly became incompetent after driver's education? No, they observed poor driving habits in others, had some of them reinforced in driver's ed and now practice them on the road.
Driver's ed here was a joke when I had to take it. I learned far more from my mother than I did from driver's ed. She insisted I drive everywhere -- from two-lane country roads, to multi-lane city streets, to freeways, and even multi-lane rotaries.
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Originally Posted by arus
And that would be against what Driver's Ed has taught for nearly 50 years.
You do not "floor" a car. You can kill your engine by doing so, or lose traction to the front or back wheels (depending on if you are FWD, RWD), causing you to skid while trying to turn. Then you become another liability and obstruction on the road.
You must be one of those types that takes everything very literally...
Yes, DRIVERS do become incompetent after leaving drivers ed. They become incompetent, becuase they know that they are no longer being "tested" for their skills and knowledge of the road. They do become incompetent over time, because human nature is to FORGET if you are not practicing it everyday.
I played the flute, for 9 years. I was first chair for my Middle school band and in High School, and performed in a small wind quartet. We played at various concerts and shows that were pout on.
After high school, I haven't touched my flute. Its been nearly 20 years. I can barely remember the keys for certain notes, or how to achieve them. I thankfully remember how to read music, because I deal with music reading in other aspects of my life, but I would have to re-take lessons to remember how to play the flute.
Same with the guitar. I played the guitar when I was in middle school. Today, I can barely remember the chords except for some basic ones, that was "ingrained" in me when I was young. But I would need to get a chord book just to remember some of the finger positions. I can't even remember what notes to tune my guitar to.
When I was learning to drive, Drivers ed wasn't a requirement.
Even today, if you plan on getting your license, and you're over 18 years of age, you are not required to take Drivers Ed. Only take a written test, and a road test. And the road test doesn't test you on EVERYTHING. Just to see if you have the ability to drive a car and follow SOME of the rules of the road.
Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you can't keep up with the program, then well, you'll have to find other ways of getting around.
No, no, you're not understanding and it's probably my fault. I'm not necessarily talking about skills. As you see, one of my pet peeves are people wo sit in the passing lane, impeding traffic. If you ever listen to these people, most of them are unaware that the left lane is a passing lane. They lack knowledge because no one ever taught them that. My instructor, in fact, encouraged us to sit in the left lane, informing us that going the speed limit was fine in the passing lane. The cars backed up behind us would just have to learn to go the speed limit. Not knowing to move out into the intersection when turning left on a green light would be another. It's not that they lack the skill, they were just never taught these things. Understanding that as you merge onto a highway from a ramp, you need to rapidly accelerate rather than continue at the same speed. This is the common mindset that poor drivers are taught: Slower equals safer. I've seen many near-accidents on ramps precisely because of this mindset. Most of these things are not fundamentally skill issues, but rather knowledge issues.
Driver's ed here was a joke when I had to take it. I learned far more from my mother than I did from driver's ed. She insisted I drive everywhere -- from two-lane country roads, to multi-lane city streets, to freeways, and even multi-lane rotaries.
Same. The learning took place from my father. The instructor was, as I said, bad news, but I can see that he was probably fairly typical of the type of instruction students receive. A lot of bad habits and passing on kids who were not yet ready to drive.
They lack knowledge because no one ever taught them that.
Or they forgot. It happens. When you don't have someone telling you, you tend to forget things.
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My instructor, in fact, encouraged us to sit in the left lane, informing us that going the speed limit was fine in the passing lane.
He is correct. Rules of passing is that you may pass on the left (using a passing lane) but you never go over the speed limit to do so. And there is no "designated" passing lane on freeways/highways. So, that person is legally driving correctly on the road.
On multi-lane roads/highways, the passing lane isn't for you to race up, and go over the speed limit. Its for you to pass slower moving cars (those going under the speed limit).
The only exception is when you are on a road or highway, that has only one lane of traffic going in either direction and in some states, the speed at which you can go over the limit is regulated. Some states, you can't go faster than the speed limit
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The cars backed up behind us would just have to learn to go the speed limit.
Yes, they learn to go the speed limit, because that is the law.
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Not knowing to move out into the intersection when turning left on a green light would be another. It's not that they lack the skill, they were just never taught these things.
If you are talking about those that never go through Drivers ed, then that would be correct. Those that go through Drivers ed, do learn these things, but unless reinforced they forget.
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Understanding that as you merge onto a highway from a ramp, you need to rapidly accelerate rather than continue at the same speed.
This is what I learned, you accelerate to match the speed of the traffic you are merging with.
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This is the common mindset that poor drivers are taught: Slower equals safer.
Slower is safer, in certain situations. You really need to stop making blanket statements.
Slower in a school zone or construction zone, is safer. Slower approach on a freeway on ramp is not.
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I've seen many near-accidents on ramps precisely because of this mindset. Most of these things are not fundamentally skill issues, but rather knowledge issues.
Again, blanket statement. Drivers ED do teach things. BUT drivers ed is not REQUIRED for everyone. Minors who want to get their license in many states are REQUIRED to take drivers ed, but once you're over 18, there is no requirement.
That is why I say: Drivers Ed for all (don't care how old you are), required to take a written and road test every 5-8 years in order to renew; required to take Drivers Ed Refresh course every 10 years (no matter if its time to renew or not); and for those over 70 years, required to take a written and road test every year.
I suppose this counts as "other controversies," So I'll post this here. This is my opinion on things that I consider stupid on our roads here.
#2. No left turn without green arrow.
</end rant>
I have honestly never seen that anywhere. I don't drive in big cities. Is that where you usually see it?
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