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I suppose this counts as "other controversies," So I'll post this here. This is my opinion on things that I consider stupid on our roads here.
#1. This has to be any intersection marked with a "no right turn on red" restriction. If nothing is coming to my left, then why the shouldn't I be able to turn right?
#2. No left turn without green arrow. Seriously, what's wrong with the standard left-turn go on arrow, yield on plain green rule. I could understand if there were a visibility issue, but that isn't that often the case. Let's just create another reason to make people sit still and wait for the invisible man.
#3. Stop signs placed everywhere, even when visibility is clear. Stop signs should only be used if there is some form of obstacle to vision. Yield perfectly appropriate if there is a clear line of sight. It's like we have a fetish for wearing out brake pads in this country to stop when there isn't any reason to. Does whether the car settles back in its suspension (the definition of a complete stop) really have anything to do with safety, or is it just another excuse to write tickets. This leads to #4...
#4. The four-way stop. Yes, I understand the rules. I just feel that it is rather stupid to make all roads come to a complete stop. If traffic is light enough that all roads can stop, then it is light enough to give one road the right of way over the other. If traffic is truly balanced in all directions, a roundabout would work.
#5. The national 55 mph speed limit. Thankfully, it is no longer in effect. Probably the most oft-broken law in the history of man. Good riddance to that law.
#1. This has to be any intersection marked with a "no right turn on red" restriction. If nothing is coming to my left, then why the shouldn't I be able to turn right?
safety. You may think you can see the road, but you may have a blind spot where you can't.
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#2. No left turn without green arrow. Seriously, what's wrong with the standard left-turn go on arrow, yield on plain green rule. I could understand if there were a visibility issue, but that isn't that often the case. Let's just create another reason to make people sit still and wait for the invisible man.
safety and flow of traffic. If you're stuck in the middle of the intersection waiting for your turn, then you become a traffic hazard for oncoming traffic if you happen to be there when it turns red.
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#3. Stop signs placed everywhere, even when visibility is clear. Stop signs should only be used if there is some form of obstacle to vision. Yield perfectly appropriate if there is a clear line of sight. It's like we have a fetish for wearing out brake pads in this country to stop when there isn't any reason to. Does whether the car settles back in its suspension (the definition of a complete stop) really have anything to do with safety, or is it just another excuse to write tickets. This leads to #4...
Safety. Flow of traffic. Slow down traffic. Highly traversed roads through neighborhoods.
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#4. The four-way stop. Yes, I understand the rules. I just feel that it is rather stupid to make all roads come to a complete stop. If traffic is light enough that all roads can stop, then it is light enough to give one road the right of way over the other. If traffic is truly balanced in all directions, a roundabout would work.
Safety. Flow of Traffic. Highly traversed roads to slow down traffic especially through neighborhoods.
Guess you don't like the roads to be safe. You can always give up your license and take public transportation.
I suppose this counts as "other controversies," So I'll post this here. This is my opinion on things that I consider stupid on our roads here.
#1. This has to be any intersection marked with a "no right turn on red" restriction. If nothing is coming to my left, then why the shouldn't I be able to turn right?
Safety. Many of the intersections that are marked with "no right turn on red" have experienced a lot of accidents by people turning right on red. Not everyone is as skilled as you.
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Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac
#2. No left turn without green arrow. Seriously, what's wrong with the standard left-turn go on arrow, yield on plain green rule. I could understand if there were a visibility issue, but that isn't that often the case. Let's just create another reason to make people sit still and wait for the invisible man.
Same as #1. Many times there is actually a visibility impediment. It can be difficult to see opposing through traffic because on people on the opposing side lined up to turn left. At least here in the Phoenix area, you often have to creep out into the intersection when making an unprotected left. You do have people who take a chance and end up getting into a nasty crash with opposing traffic.
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Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac
#3. Stop signs placed everywhere, even when visibility is clear. Stop signs should only be used if there is some form of obstacle to vision. Yield perfectly appropriate if there is a clear line of sight. It's like we have a fetish for wearing out brake pads in this country to stop when there isn't any reason to. Does whether the car settles back in its suspension (the definition of a complete stop) really have anything to do with safety, or is it just another excuse to write tickets. This leads to #4...
Safety. Stop signs can be used to try to slow people down. I am sure pedestrians appreciate stop signs. People do not what yield means in this country. To too many people "yield" means gun it ahead of the guy coming.
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Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac
#4. The four-way stop. Yes, I understand the rules. I just feel that it is rather stupid to make all roads come to a complete stop. If traffic is light enough that all roads can stop, then it is light enough to give one road the right of way over the other. If traffic is truly balanced in all directions, a roundabout would work.
I don't understand how four way stops are "stupid." Some streets have very high traffic volume. Without four way stops, traffic at intersecting streets would never be able to make it across or would have to take risks in trying to get across the street. Also, pedestrians. Streets aren't just about cars, you know.
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Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac
#5. The national 55 mph speed limit. Thankfully, it is no longer in effect. Probably the most oft-broken law in the history of man. Good riddance to that law.
Had to do with the oil crisis. Traveling at 55 MPH vs. 75 MPH conserves more fuel. That's just a fact. Is there is a fuel shortage, you would want to encourage people to use less. Reducing the speed limit does that. Whether you choose to speed or not is up to you. It is against the law regardless.
safety. You may think you can see the road, but you may have a blind spot where you can't.
Any light I've been to with a no turn on red restriction had no blind spots that would impact my ability to decide if it was safe to go. In fact, I've found it to be the total opposite. Visibility for a half a mile at least. Prompting me to rant about how dumb it is.
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safety and flow of traffic. If you're stuck in the middle of the intersection waiting for your turn, then you become a traffic hazard for oncoming traffic if you happen to be there when it turns red.
In that case, I believe the standard is to floor it to get out before the other light turns green. Again, probably if I haven't spent countless hours over the years waiting for the invisible man, I wouldn't be griping. The stupidest thing to me is, I get to the red arrow to turn left. Enough of a gap for an 18-wheeler to turn without getting in anyone's way. Anyway, I finally get my green arrow, and by that time, there are cars that now have to stop and wait for me that could have otherwise kept moving had I been afforded the opportunity to go before when it was perfectly safe.
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Safety. Flow of traffic. Slow down traffic. Highly traversed roads through neighborhoods.
The only difference between a stop sign and a yield sign, as far as what drivers are supposed to do, is with a stop sign, a driver must allow the car to settle back in its suspension before proceeding. That is totally irrelevant to safety, and is nothing more than a nitpick for the purpose of writing out tickets. If nothing is coming, then nothing is coming; stopping for nobody does not make you safer.
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Safety. Flow of Traffic. Highly traversed roads to slow down traffic especially through neighborhoods.
Safety? How is a four-way stop any safer than a two-way? As for flow of traffic, a four-way stop is likely the LEAST efficient of all choices for an intersection. I mean, there isn't really any way to be LESS efficient than making everyone stop.
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Guess you don't like the roads to be safe. You can always give up your license and take public transportation.
No, I just recognize that just because they say it's for "safety," doesn't mean it is. There was an intersection here that was controlled for the longest time by a yield sign. I never saw an accident once at that intersection. One day, I drive through, and it's a stop sign. Why? Well, shortly thereafter, I start hearing some acquaintances of mine griping about getting tickets for running a stop sign that never used to be there. Guess the city was in need of some cash.
My point is: In this country is "safety" is often nothing more than a false justification for issuing traffic citations. Waiting when there is nobody to wait for in no way makes us safer; it just wastes gas.
Hell, the safest road around is the one without any cars on it. But I'd personally rather take the risk, since a life without travel might as well be death to me.
safety. You may think you can see the road, but you may have a blind spot where you can't.
safety and flow of traffic. If you're stuck in the middle of the intersection waiting for your turn, then you become a traffic hazard for oncoming traffic if you happen to be there when it turns red.
Safety. Flow of traffic. Slow down traffic. Highly traversed roads through neighborhoods.
Safety. Flow of Traffic. Highly traversed roads to slow down traffic especially through neighborhoods.
Guess you don't like the roads to be safe. You can always give up your license and take public transportation.
All of this is more symptomatic of our horrible driver education system which begets horrible drivers. We are forced to create such rules because the proportion of incompetent drivers increases exponentially each year, not because of traffic volume. If you've ever been to a region or location of this country or of another country where drivers are more competent, you realize that volume isn't the key variable. You can have a heavy flow of drivers, but because they are competent - aware, driving defensively, actively avoiding impeding other drivers - traffic flows easily. We can continue down the road of attempting to change the rules of the road to prevent poor drivers from hurting others or we can attempt to treat the cause of the disorder on the road.
Any light I've been to with a no turn on red restriction had no blind spots that would impact my ability to decide if it was safe to go. In fact, I've found it to be the total opposite. Visibility for a half a mile at least. Prompting me to rant about how dumb it is.
To Echo:
Safety. Many of the intersections that are marked with "no right turn on red" have experienced a lot of accidents by people turning right on red. Not everyone is as skilled as you.
And many times, there is a pedestrian crosswalk as well, that pedestrians of the area probably complained that they could not cross due to cars constantly turning on the light.
What is your beef against safety?
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In that case, I believe the standard is to floor it to get out before the other light turns green.
And that would be against what Driver's Ed has taught for nearly 50 years.
You do not "floor" a car. You can kill your engine by doing so, or lose traction to the front or back wheels (depending on if you are FWD, RWD), causing you to skid while trying to turn. Then you become another liability and obstruction on the road.
What is your beef against safety?
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Again, probably if I haven't spent countless hours over the years waiting for the invisible man, I wouldn't be griping.
Again, you do everything like everyone else does. that "invisible" man cna suddenly be a visible one.
What is your beef against safety?
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The stupidest thing to me is, I get to the red arrow to turn left. Enough of a gap for an 18-wheeler to turn without getting in anyone's way. Anyway, I finally get my green arrow, and by that time, there are cars that now have to stop and wait for me that could have otherwise kept moving had I been afforded the opportunity to go before when it was perfectly safe.
so what? I don't care if you have to waith 1 minute or 3 minutes. You wait your turn like everyone else. If i have to wait, because I follow the rules of the road, YOU do too.
what is your beef against safety?
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The only difference between a stop sign and a yield sign, as far as what drivers are supposed to do, is with a stop sign, a driver must allow the car to settle back in its suspension before proceeding. That is totally irrelevant to safety, and is nothing more than a nitpick for the purpose of writing out tickets. If nothing is coming, then nothing is coming; stopping for nobody does not make you safer.
What I bolded is where you are totally and 100% wrong. IT is TOTALLY relevant to safety. A Full stop allows you to:
1) Examine the intersection to make sure there is no oncoming cars and/or pedestrians
2) LOOK down the road to anticipate other drivers. DO they see the stop sign? There are many times when I've encountered a 4 way stop, and watched the cars run through them.
Yield signs are usually found in locations where you are entering flow of traffic going in the same direction as you and there is no crosswalk or pedestrian traffic to stop you from doing so (you are not crossing lanes of traffic going in opposite directions)
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Safety? How is a four-way stop any safer than a two-way?
4 way stops allow all drivers to look out for each other, and to make sure they are clear to proceed. Stopping promotes safety. It also allows pedestrians a point to which they can cross the street. In many neighborhoods, there are no crosswalks, and the assumed crosswalk are at these corners, where these stop signs are.
What is your beef against safety?
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As for flow of traffic, a four-way stop is likely the LEAST efficient of all choices for an intersection.
4 ways stops are efficient, when everyone follows the rules. And its to slow down traffic for areas where drivers would normally speed through. The only people who think its in efficient are impatient morons who have no concept of safety.
What is your beef against safety?
The rest of your hub-bug is basically you want to be able to drive the way you want to, because you just don't care about safety.
Its nice to be in that 2400 lb car and be cozy, but that 2400 lb car can do wonders to a 90 lb kid, walking across the street.
All of this is more symptomatic of our horrible driver education system which begets horrible drivers.
Really? Please show us the reports that show this....
No, this is a symptom of laziness, inattentiveness, and basically the lack of skills by the drivers themselves.
I took driver's ed at 15 years of age, but I didn't get my license until I was 18. In that time between, I practiced driving while being monitored by my parents. I drove everything from a full on station wagon, to a small compact, to a Ford Econoline van, all part of learning how to drive.
Since I got my license, I have received all of 0 tickets. big fat 0. Not a moving violation. No speeding tickets. And I've been driving for nearly 20 years. I have never been stopped by a cop for anything (yes never stopped by a cop). And this is despite for one year traveling near 700 miles per week for business.
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or we can attempt to treat the cause of the disorder on the road.
yes, that is to penalize drivers who are lazy, inattentive, and distracted.
this has nothing to do with Drivers Ed since you haven't shown that Drivers Ed is responsible.
What I would suggest is that Driver's Ed is a mandatory class that needs to be taken every 5-8 years if you want to renew your license. And that you must go through a road coarse every 10 years; after age 70 then you must take a written and road test every year).
Safety. Many of the intersections that are marked with "no right turn on red" have experienced a lot of accidents by people turning right on red. Not everyone is as skilled as you.
And many times, there is a pedestrian crosswalk as well, that pedestrians of the area probably complained that they could not cross due to cars constantly turning on the light.
What is your beef against safety?
And that would be against what Driver's Ed has taught for nearly 50 years.
You do not "floor" a car. You can kill your engine by doing so, or lose traction to the front or back wheels (depending on if you are FWD, RWD), causing you to skid while trying to turn. Then you become another liability and obstruction on the road.
What is your beef against safety?
Again, you do everything like everyone else does. that "invisible" man cna suddenly be a visible one.
What is your beef against safety?
so what? I don't care if you have to waith 1 minute or 3 minutes. You wait your turn like everyone else. If i have to wait, because I follow the rules of the road, YOU do too.
what is your beef against safety?
What I bolded is where you are totally and 100% wrong. IT is TOTALLY relevant to safety. A Full stop allows you to:
1) Examine the intersection to make sure there is no oncoming cars and/or pedestrians
2) LOOK down the road to anticipate other drivers. DO they see the stop sign? There are many times when I've encountered a 4 way stop, and watched the cars run through them.
Yield signs are usually found in locations where you are entering flow of traffic going in the same direction as you and there is no crosswalk or pedestrian traffic to stop you from doing so (you are not crossing lanes of traffic going in opposite directions)
4 way stops allow all drivers to look out for each other, and to make sure they are clear to proceed. Stopping promotes safety. It also allows pedestrians a point to which they can cross the street. In many neighborhoods, there are no crosswalks, and the assumed crosswalk are at these corners, where these stop signs are.
What is your beef against safety?
4 ways stops are efficient, when everyone follows the rules. And its to slow down traffic for areas where drivers would normally speed through. The only people who think its in efficient are impatient morons who have no concept of safety.
What is your beef against safety?
The rest of your hub-bug is basically you want to be able to drive the way you want to, because you just don't care about safety.
Its nice to be in that 2400 lb car and be cozy, but that 2400 lb car can do wonders to a 90 lb kid, walking across the street.
Four-way stops are neither as safe nor as efficient as roundabouts. So, why do we use four-way stops? Because American drivers cannot handle roundabouts and are intimidated by them. Theoretically, we can extend your logic fully. We can take speed limits down to 25 mph on highways. We can place non-synched stoplights at every intersection so that we must always come to complete stops. We can do any number of things. Everything accept address the fundamental reason we must go to such lengths: Incompetent driving.
What is your opinion of people who sit in the passing lane on highways going the speed limit? I ask this because you previously broached the subject of "impeding traffic?" Do you think people who sit in the passing lane when they are not passing are dangerous drivers?
I used to have a job working in a large warehouse with all kinds of powerful electric vehicles whizzing around. Various kinds of forklifts, some of them pretty big & powerful; electric pallet jacks; techs & managers driving around in golf-cart-like things. There were very few rules, pretty much no signs, there was not even a 'drive on the right side' rule. You drove whereever you had a clear path. Accidents were very rare.
"More than half of our signs have already been scrapped," says traffic planner Koop Kerkstra. "Only two out of our original 18 traffic light crossings are left, and we've converted them to roundabouts." Now traffic is regulated by only two rules in Drachten: "Yield to the right" and "Get in someone's way and you'll be towed."
Strange as it may seem, the number of accidents has declined dramatically. Experts from Argentina and the United States have visited Drachten. Even London has expressed an interest in this new example of automobile anarchy.
Really? Please show us the reports that show this....
No, this is a symptom of laziness, inattentiveness, and basically the lack of skills by the drivers themselves.
I took driver's ed at 15 years of age, but I didn't get my license until I was 18. In that time between, I practiced driving while being monitored by my parents. I drove everything from a full on station wagon, to a small compact, to a Ford Econoline van, all part of learning how to drive.
Since I got my license, I have received all of 0 tickets. big fat 0. Not a moving violation. No speeding tickets. And I've been driving for nearly 20 years. I have never been stopped by a cop for anything (yes never stopped by a cop). And this is despite for one year traveling near 700 miles per week for business.
yes, that is to penalize drivers who are lazy, inattentive, and distracted.
this has nothing to do with Drivers Ed since you haven't shown that Drivers Ed is responsible.
What I would suggest is that Driver's Ed is a mandatory class that needs to be taken every 5-8 years if you want to renew your license. And that you must go through a road coarse every 10 years; after age 70 then you must take a written and road test every year).
Incompetent drivers do not become incompetent after leaving driver's ed programs. We all must take them and in order to receive our licenses, we must be approved. An instructor must pass us on and an official must place us in a vehicle, observe us and give the okay, despite the incompetence of those students.
I agree completely with your final paragraph. If standards were upheld, however, a huge percentage of the public would not receive their licenses in the first place, nor have them renewed, so either we would have a system we have now, where instructors and DMV officials allow incompetent drivers to pass or there would be a mass revolt by the people.
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