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Where did I claim I sought attention? I feel pick-up truckdrivers are the ones looking for that! Coal rollers, road-ragers, middle-aged bros, and the wide assortments of other miscreants and schlemiels who drive them.
That may be true, but there are many fleet trucks monitored by telematics which skew the figures. In addition to that, it is quite feasible that the drivers aren't being involved in the accidents, but causing them and fleeing the scene.
I don't want to contribute further to the angry-white-male trope, but you must agree, an angry 40 year old road raging white man in a Chevy truck is hardly a novelty.
I earned a PhD and my dear bride an M.D., so we do quite well even without other family assets for which we are very fortunate. Even so, we shant entertain a 4x4 pickup truck despite being able to comfortably afford one or more. We were both raised in refined environments that eschewed behaviors that pick-up truckdrivers seem to favor. So, yes, it's possible that only people with a lot of money to spend would buy a pickup truck, but I have a hard time believing that the majority of pickup truck drivers are upstanding patient citizens with Master's Degrees in technical disciplines!
Furthermore, I didn't (and dassn't!) claim that all pick-up truckdrivers are reckless drivers, drunks, rednecks, or anything else. Certainly they are not all bullies on the road. But most bullies on the road coincidentally happen to be in pick-up trucks. I only hope that this clears up the confusion stemming from that minor detail.
It is with finality that I shall state I hadn't any intention of offending pick-up truckdrivers!
In Alaska where I live, you see Alaska Natives, blacks, hispanics, whites, as well as their family members driving pickup trucks. Your statements lead me to believe that you are assuming that only whites drive pickup trucks.
Well, you earned your PhD, but it means nothing relating to traffic or road statistics. In general there are more FWD cars and SUV's on the roads than pickup trucks, and regardless of your PhD, the statistics show that because there are more vehicles of all kinds on the roads than pickup trucks, the latter aren't the problem relating to accidents and traffic violations.
Where did I claim I sought attention? I feel pick-up truckdrivers are the ones looking for that! Coal rollers, road-ragers, middle-aged bros, and the wide assortments of other miscreants and schlemiels who drive them.
Your feelings are irrelevant. Facts are what matter and the fact is your feelings are a product of your personal bias. A PhD should have at least some self awareness of this. Especially a self-described "cerebral" one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
That may be true, but there are many fleet trucks monitored by telematics which skew the figures. In addition to that, it is quite feasible that the drivers aren't being involved in the accidents, but causing them and fleeing the scene.
This is amusing. Fleet trucks are why the figures are skewed? Just where did you get your PhD? I'd contact the university if I were you. You may be entitled to a refund.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
I don't want to contribute further to the angry-white-male trope, but you must agree, an angry 40 year old road raging white man in a Chevy truck is hardly a novelty.
An angry man or woman in any age group and in any type of vehicle is not a novelty. Road rage isn't an angry 40 year old in a Chevy thing. It's a human thing. Again, I'd expect a "cerebral" PhD who included the word "intellectual" in his screen name to be able to recognize this.
What you've done with this statement is further confirm your own bias. And bias coming from a PhD is still bias.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
I earned a PhD and my dear bride an M.D., so we do quite well even without other family assets for which we are very fortunate. Even so, we shant entertain a 4x4 pickup truck despite being able to comfortably afford one or more. We were both raised in refined environments that eschewed behaviors that pick-up truckdrivers seem to favor.
The bolded is not a statement grounded in critical thought. At all. Not even close. It's the kind of broad brush statement that is either made in a thoughtless "drive-by" manner or it's once again your bias exhibiting. Even your attempt to soften it with a "SEEM to favor" doesn't cut it: a statement like this has no academic integrity. It's a personal observation stemming from a personal bias. Again: A "cerebral" "intellectual" with a PhD should recognize this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
So, yes, it's possible that only people with a lot of money to spend would buy a pickup truck, but I have a hard time believing that the majority of pickup truck drivers are upstanding patient citizens with Master's Degrees in technical disciplines!
With as many people out there driving pickups it's impossible to sort them neatly into one box. Any statement attempting to do so (beyond something like "all people who own pickup trucks drive generally the same type of vehicle") isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Now you can actually run some analysis on how many people hold a master's degree and cross section it with those who drive pickups and you may be able to rightly conclude that the majority of those who drive pickups do not hold a master's degree. But what have you proven? Certainly not the points bias-based claims you've made in this discussion. It doesn't take a master's degree to drive like a responsible person. It doesn't take a pickup truck to drive irresponsibly.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the vast majority of drivers (of all makes and models) just want to make it to and from where they're going without mixing paint with other vehicles. Some are better at this than others. And some (again, in all kinds of makes and models) want to either show off or go 10 miles an hour faster than everyone around them, etc. It takes a very biased and limited mind to assume pickup drivers are worse than anyone else in this regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
Furthermore, I didn't (and dassn't!) claim that all pick-up truckdrivers are reckless drivers, drunks, rednecks, or anything else. Certainly they are not all bullies on the road. But most bullies on the road coincidentally happen to be in pick-up trucks. I only hope that this clears up the confusion stemming from that minor detail.
I've seen pushy and aggressive drivers in everything from a Prius to a busted up Ford Escort to cars that cost 6 figures. I live in an affluent and crowded part of the country that is notorious for bad traffic. Those who drive pickups don't really stand out as any worse than other types of vehicles. That's just my observation. It's anecdotal and limited to 1 observer in 1 part of the country and not backed by any scientific analysis. At least I can recognize that about my observation.
I'll throw out a thought for you: it's possible the reason you believe most bullies on the road are pickup drivers is because pickups are larger than other vehicles and therefore more noticeable. It's obvious from your posts you have a certain bias and stereotype about those who drive pickups and every time someone in a pickup does something you disapprove of you experience confirmation bias. This same bias becomes a bit self fulfilling: you see pickups (again, they are larger and more noticeable) and watch them closer, expecting them to do something to confirm your bias. And sometimes they will. My guess is often times they don't but you don't remember those drivers; just the ones who confirm what you already believed about them. Meanwhile you don't notice when drivers of other types of vehicles do the same things pickup drivers do. Perhaps some of them "look like you" so you are more likely to give them a pass or not even notice at all.
Whatever the case, your opinion is your opinion and I adamantly respect your right to that opinion. But at the same time I am entirely dismissive of it. What you've voiced here is not for the mind that possesses the ability to think critically. This is for those who just want someone to validate what they already believed to begin with. I'll pass, thanks. I don't walk around pretending to be smarter than anyone, but I'm at least better than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
It is with finality that I shall state I hadn't any intention of offending pick-up truckdrivers!
Why should anyone be offended? Oh, and FWIW, I'm not. I don't even own a pickup. I just think it's fair to challenge such a limited display (read: "complete lack") of critical thought.
My observation is that all sorts of people in all sorts of vehicles fail to use their blinkers. Also, all sorts of people in all sorts of vehicles can occasionally be seen driving for miles and miles with their blinker on.
I never jump out in front of a car with the blinker on, because the blinker might mean they are going to turn, but it might mean they never turned the blinker off the last time they turned, 30 minutes ago, and they are going to continue to drive with their blinker on for many more miles.
My complaint about drivers is that it no longer seems to be important to dim headlights when approaching drivers at night from the opposite direction. No specific type of vehicle, but nearly all of them, no matter what type of vehicle or who is driving.
...
My complaint about drivers is that it no longer seems to be important to dim headlights when approaching drivers at night from the opposite direction. No specific type of vehicle, but nearly all of them, no matter what type of vehicle or who is driving.
It goes further than that. Many people turn on their fog lights just for the heck of it. So even if they dim their headlights you get hit with the fog lights.
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
3,095 posts, read 2,043,304 times
Reputation: 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Your feelings are irrelevant. Facts are what matter and the fact is your feelings are a product of your personal bias. A PhD should have at least some self awareness of this. Especially a self-described "cerebral" one.
This is amusing. Fleet trucks are why the figures are skewed? Just where did you get your PhD? I'd contact the university if I were you. You may be entitled to a refund.
An angry man or woman in any age group and in any type of vehicle is not a novelty. Road rage isn't an angry 40 year old in a Chevy thing. It's a human thing. Again, I'd expect a "cerebral" PhD who included the word "intellectual" in his screen name to be able to recognize this.
What you've done with this statement is further confirm your own bias. And bias coming from a PhD is still bias.
The bolded is not a statement grounded in critical thought. At all. Not even close. It's the kind of broad brush statement that is either made in a thoughtless "drive-by" manner or it's once again your bias exhibiting. Even your attempt to soften it with a "SEEM to favor" doesn't cut it: a statement like this has no academic integrity. It's a personal observation stemming from a personal bias. Again: A "cerebral" "intellectual" with a PhD should recognize this.
With as many people out there driving pickups it's impossible to sort them neatly into one box. Any statement attempting to do so (beyond something like "all people who own pickup trucks drive generally the same type of vehicle") isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Now you can actually run some analysis on how many people hold a master's degree and cross section it with those who drive pickups and you may be able to rightly conclude that the majority of those who drive pickups do not hold a master's degree. But what have you proven? Certainly not the points bias-based claims you've made in this discussion. It doesn't take a master's degree to drive like a responsible person. It doesn't take a pickup truck to drive irresponsibly.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the vast majority of drivers (of all makes and models) just want to make it to and from where they're going without mixing paint with other vehicles. Some are better at this than others. And some (again, in all kinds of makes and models) want to either show off or go 10 miles an hour faster than everyone around them, etc. It takes a very biased and limited mind to assume pickup drivers are worse than anyone else in this regard.
I've seen pushy and aggressive drivers in everything from a Prius to a busted up Ford Escort to cars that cost 6 figures. I live in an affluent and crowded part of the country that is notorious for bad traffic. Those who drive pickups don't really stand out as any worse than other types of vehicles. That's just my observation. It's anecdotal and limited to 1 observer in 1 part of the country and not backed by any scientific analysis. At least I can recognize that about my observation.
I'll throw out a thought for you: it's possible the reason you believe most bullies on the road are pickup drivers is because pickups are larger than other vehicles and therefore more noticeable. It's obvious from your posts you have a certain bias and stereotype about those who drive pickups and every time someone in a pickup does something you disapprove of you experience confirmation bias. This same bias becomes a bit self fulfilling: you see pickups (again, they are larger and more noticeable) and watch them closer, expecting them to do something to confirm your bias. And sometimes they will. My guess is often times they don't but you don't remember those drivers; just the ones who confirm what you already believed about them. Meanwhile you don't notice when drivers of other types of vehicles do the same things pickup drivers do. Perhaps some of them "look like you" so you are more likely to give them a pass or not even notice at all.
Whatever the case, your opinion is your opinion and I adamantly respect your right to that opinion. But at the same time I am entirely dismissive of it. What you've voiced here is not for the mind that possesses the ability to think critically. This is for those who just want someone to validate what they already believed to begin with. I'll pass, thanks. I don't walk around pretending to be smarter than anyone, but I'm at least better than that.
Why should anyone be offended? Oh, and FWIW, I'm not. I don't even own a pickup. I just think it's fair to challenge such a limited display (read: "complete lack") of critical thought.
I simply started this thread out to state that where I live, I see turn signals employed on light trucks the least of all types of vehicle on roads around me. I implied nothing about van or pickup drivers being bullies, or any other extrapolations. Just a low use of blinkers among a certain class of motor vehicle.
I simply started this thread out to state that where I live, I see turn signals employed on light trucks the least of all types of vehicle on roads around me. I implied nothing about van or pickup drivers being bullies, or any other extrapolations. Just a low use of blinkers among a certain class of motor vehicle.
If you look again, my post you quoted is directed specifically toward another member.
FWIW I do suspect you too are experiencing confirmation bias. People tend to notice what they want to notice. You can say you're an exception, that you noice everything and then repeat your claim that it's a certain type of vehicle more than others. Most of us reading will probably just continue to suspect it's confirmation bias on your part.
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
3,095 posts, read 2,043,304 times
Reputation: 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
If you look again, my post you quoted is directed specifically toward another member.
FWIW I do suspect you too are experiencing confirmation bias. People tend to notice what they want to notice. You can say you're an exception, that you noice everything and then repeat your claim that it's a certain type of vehicle more than others. Most of us reading will probably just continue to suspect it's confirmation bias on your part.
My observation is purely Empirical - I report what I see.
If drivers of four-door sedans, or of motorcycles, didn't seem to employ turn blinkers as often as drivers of other types of vehicle, then the title of this thread would reflect that.
Your feelings are irrelevant. Facts are what matter and the fact is your feelings are a product of your personal bias. A PhD should have at least some self awareness of this. Especially a self-described "cerebral" one.
You see, this is no merit for a personal attack. My feelings aren't any more or less relevant than anyone else's. I'm quite aware that I'm biased, and so is everyone in this thread and on this forum. If you read my other post in this thread, I quite plainly stated that I wasn't armed with factual evidence or exhaustive research studies, and neither is anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
This is amusing. Fleet trucks are why the figures are skewed? Just where did you get your PhD? I'd contact the university if I were you. You may be entitled to a refund.
Berkeley, where I first made acquaintance with my beautiful bride! Fleet trucks that are controlled and monitored is an assumption, not a fact. I didn't state it as a fact. Again, there's no need to resort to any personal attacks since these are opinions and city-data is surely not a controlled research environment. As a matter of FACT, the site even says they aren't responsible for the "data" part of city-data. The forums are a coruucopia of opinions, not the definitive source for scientific evidence and academic integrity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
An angry man or woman in any age group and in any type of vehicle is not a novelty. Road rage isn't an angry 40 year old in a Chevy thing. It's a human thing. Again, I'd expect a "cerebral" PhD who included the word "intellectual" in his screen name to be able to recognize this.
Again, you disparage my personal integrity for articulating a viewpoint rather than disagreeing with the viewpoint itself. I am undoubtedly an intellectual (a label that is not yours to give), but this is a forum of opinions, and I quite expect that I'll exchange them with a medley of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
What you've done with this statement is further confirm your own bias. And bias coming from a PhD is still bias.
I unequivocally stated that my viewpoint was purely a viewpoint. While I may be academically accomplished, I don't consider myself a prodigy or a walking book of research findings. My degree doesn't supersede the fact that I'm a human. I am not an academic machine that processes data and spits it out the other side, nor is anyone else!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
We were both raised in refined environments that eschewed behaviors that pick-up truckdrivers seem to favor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
The bolded [40 year old angry white male] is not a statement grounded in critical thought. At all. Not even close. It's the kind of broad brush statement that is either made in a thoughtless "drive-by" manner or it's once again your bias exhibiting. Even your attempt to soften it with a "SEEM to favor" doesn't cut it: a statement like this has no academic integrity. It's a personal observation stemming from a personal bias. Again: A "cerebral" "intellectual" with a PhD should recognize this.
Again, I make no claims to academic integrity or unbiased opining in this thread. See my above responses. "Seem to favor" is a literal statement and was used deliberately to imply an opinion, not a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
With as many people out there driving pickups it's impossible to sort them neatly into one box. Any statement attempting to do so (beyond something like "all people who own pickup trucks drive generally the same type of vehicle") isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Oh I'm well aware of that. Pick-up truckdrivers aren't ALL boorish vehicle operators. As I previously declared, disrespectful and sometimes dangerous operators seem to represent an apparently disproportionate number of total vehicles, but certainly not ALL vehicles or operators! Again, the word "seem" is used deliberately, as I haven't an exhaustive research study to quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Now you can actually run some analysis on how many people hold a master's degree and cross section it with those who drive pickups and you may be able to rightly conclude that the majority of those who drive pickups do not hold a master's degree. But what have you proven? Certainly not the points bias-based claims you've made in this discussion. It doesn't take a master's degree to drive like a responsible person. It doesn't take a pickup truck to drive irresponsibly.
Now, I must take slight issue with the bolded claim. While it most surely does not require a Master's Degree to operate a vehicle responsibly, private vehicle insurance is very interested in one's academic achievements. Insurance companies have found that education levels are predictive of one's likelihood of being involved in a crash!
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the vast majority of drivers (of all makes and models) just want to make it to and from where they're going without mixing paint with other vehicles. Some are better at this than others. And some (again, in all kinds of makes and models) want to either show off or go 10 miles an hour faster than everyone around them, etc. It takes a very biased and limited mind to assume pickup drivers are worse than anyone else in this regard.
We concur on the former, but dissent on the latter. Most drivers don't want to trade paint with anything. But opining on one's sentiment, observation, and experience, is simply that. While not a fan of quote mining or post-stalking, it's likely that I could hunt through many peoples' post history and claim the same about them. It's simply unproductive and uncouth to do such a thing, so I shan't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
I've seen pushy and aggressive drivers in everything from a Prius to a busted up Ford Escort to cars that cost 6 figures. I live in an affluent and crowded part of the country that is notorious for bad traffic. Those who drive pickups don't really stand out as any worse than other types of vehicles. That's just my observation. It's anecdotal and limited to 1 observer in 1 part of the country and not backed by any scientific analysis. At least I can recognize that about my observation.
I shall call attention to the bolded text immediately above. It is very possible that poor drivers in pickup trucks are a regional feature. I presume there are few terrible drivers of pick-up trucks in New York City, simply because most drivers don't drive pickup trucks at all. Therefore, other vehicles would be favored. It's still a resasonable assumption that in an area where pick-up trucks are fancied, that the worst operators would land in a pick-up's driver's seat. That's just an observation, anecdotal and limited to the universe of observers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
I'll throw out a thought for you: it's possible the reason you believe most bullies on the road are pickup drivers is because pickups are larger than other vehicles and therefore more noticeable. It's obvious from your posts you have a certain bias and stereotype about those who drive pickups and every time someone in a pickup does something you disapprove of you experience confirmation bias. This same bias becomes a bit self fulfilling: you see pickups (again, they are larger and more noticeable) and watch them closer, expecting them to do something to confirm your bias. And sometimes they will. My guess is often times they don't but you don't remember those drivers; just the ones who confirm what you already believed about them. Meanwhile you don't notice when drivers of other types of vehicles do the same things pickup drivers do. Perhaps some of them "look like you" so you are more likely to give them a pass or not even notice at all.
Oh I'm quite aware of confirmation bias and don't argue that I might be affected by it slightly. However, I maintain that there remains a dissimilar proportion of crude pick-up truck drivers compared to those of any other vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Whatever the case, your opinion is your opinion and I adamantly respect your right to that opinion. But at the same time I am entirely dismissive of it. What you've voiced here is not for the mind that possesses the ability to think critically. This is for those who just want someone to validate what they already believed to begin with. I'll pass, thanks. I don't walk around pretending to be smarter than anyone, but I'm at least better than that.
First, I thank you for your (sometimes) conscientious response. I do so appreciate the time you put into responding and the fun I have had responding to you, but your long response leads me to question your assertion that you are entirely dismissive of my my opinion. Were that true, I feel that you might have avoided my post altogether!
Additionally, while I have no pretentions about my intellegience, I did, without question, dedicate more time and effort than the majority of people, to attaining a very high level of education, and that is a matter of fact.
I do feel it is important to point out, though, that perhaps your response to me with it's disparaging allegations of my degree, intellect, and screen name, is reflective of your own confirmation bias, which would only serve to discredit most of your response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Why should anyone be offended? Oh, and FWIW, I'm not. I don't even own a pickup. I just think it's fair to challenge such a limited display (read: "complete lack") of critical thought.
Finally, I wanted to point out that I have politely stated my opinion, but I have refrained from attacking the character of specific indiviudals! And thank you again, sir, for your response!!!
You see, this is no merit for a personal attack...
I won't go point for point, but I'll say this: Nothing in my post can be honestly construed as a personal attack. You're the one who make your status as a cerebral intellectual with a PhD a part of the discussion. When you do that but then make comments so void of critical thought it is fair to comment in the manner I have.
I'll give this one a special mention though:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahia Drive Intellectual
I do feel it is important to point out, though, that perhaps your response to me with it's disparaging allegations of my degree, intellect, and screen name, is reflective of your own confirmation bias, which would only serve to discredit most of your response.
Once again, nothing I said can be accurately described as a personal attack. You made some pretty broad brush statements and I countered that someone who is truly intellectual should know better. As for my own confirmation bias, you'd have to know what behavior I'm "confirming." But if what you're hinting at what I think you're hinting at, go fish. You're way off!
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Oh, and FWIW, I'm not. I don't even own a pickup. I just think it's fair to challenge such a limited display (read: "complete lack") of critical thought.
