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It really just depends where I was living. I have a friend of mine who lives in a condo in Chicago. His garage space cost him $30k or so. At the time, that was more than the value of his car!
Between my wife and I, we have 3 cars. I wouldn't pay $90k for 3 parking spaces, that just seems insane. Most likely we'd sell two cars, and unfortunately that means we'd have to keep the vehicle that can do more stuff. That would end up being my wife's SUV, as my sports car and sedan just don't have the usability factor that her SUV does. I'd hate to do that since I'm a car guy though. So we'd still get one parking space, and we'd still have a car of some sort, just because there's no way I'm giving up all our vehicles.
I think a good balance is one vehicle per household in a big city with good mass transit, purely from the perspective of someone who views vehicles as appliances like dishwasher.
Years ago I lived in downtown Atlanta, and had my old pickup truck there with me. I lived in the old Howell House apartments, with basement covered parking. So, I would generally leave my truck in the garage, except to go home on weekends to my parents' house out in the burbs. I did and still do hate driving in heavy traffic. Ironically although that area was jammed during business hours M-F, on weekends it was nearly deserted. Timing is important.
During high traffic times, I did prefer the bus, which was air-conditioned. Clearly taking the bus was cheaper, and I didn't have to find a place to park when I got where I was going.
But I did like having the truck available. You can carry enormously more stuff in a pickup, even a short-bed, step side half-ton like mine, than you can carry with you on a bus.
At that time, MARTA trains were not built. So "public transport" meant "bus" plain and simple.
Now, to consider either DC, or Moscow, Russia, with serious Metro systems - I will say, when I fly into DC for work occasionally, I do avoid renting a car, and prefer to fly into Reagan, and stay on the Metro. If work is too far off the Metro to make walking practical, I'll use a cab. In Moscow, the Metro is so fast and efficient, actually there I would not feel any need to have a car available.
Yep, and the wife was miserable.
Sometimes life sticks you someplace you don't want to be. Refusal to adapt guarantees misery.
You make an excellent point in that last sentence, which also calls to mind the refrain of a John Lennon song from the 1970s:
"If you can't be with the one you love
Love the one you're with"
Adapted to this discussion, if you can't be in the place you'd rather be, rather than complain about how awful it is, find something you can like about it, focus on that, and see how you can fit that into your life.
That goes both ways, of course. City to country and country to city.
And even within cities. I spent 18 months living in a Philadelphia neighborhood that I would rather not have lived in, but a friend of mine offered me a room in his home there when I needed one, so off I went.
I found out all sorts of interesting things about that neighborhood while I lived there. When I had to move again, I left it, but I didn't leave it feeling miserable.
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Originally Posted by ss20ts
All large cities are pretty isolated. That's the nature of the beast. 400K IS a large city.
No, not all large cities are isolated.
Consider our own northeastern United States. The suburbs of the largest and second-largest cities in the Northeast bump into each other; in fact, there's a county that the Census Bureau could put in either one. Some residents of the larger city, finding it too expensive to live in, move to the other while keeping their jobs there because high-speed trains make them virtual next-door neighbors (there are some New Yorkers who will drive for 60 minutes from Pennsylvania's Lehigh Valley because they can't afford anything closer; Amtrak trains take that long to travel between Philadelphia and New York).
The American shores of Lakes Erie and Michigan are pretty much continuously urbanized, with a series of cities large (Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, Chicago) and small (Gary, South Bend, Erie) forming an almost unbroken chain of development.
The three main cities of the Netherlands - Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague - form a conurbation the Dutch call "Ringstaat" - "ring city."
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Actually, the reason folks in NYC don't tend to own cars is because of the cost. It's not because of public transit. Parking is extraordinary expensive.....think over a grand a month. It's like paying rent for your car. Plenty of people do in fact have vehicles.
I think I mentioned that was the main reason many Manhattanites don't own cars. But if it weren't for the existence of the dense mass transit network, the ones that don't would have to own them too. Total 24/7 gridlock would likely ensue.
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I have zero interest in Asian cities. I don't like cities at all. Just because you don't feel the need to drive, doesn't mean the rest of us are like that. Safety is ALWAYS a concern with mass transit and all forms of transportation.
Including the road-based ones, and the same statement works in the opposite direction. Carless households in this country are a minority, and even Europeans love to drive, their better mass transit systems notwithstanding, but the carless folks are not freaks of nature.
Yes. You have immense freedom with a car that is impossible with public transit. Travelling out to outside the city or doing a road trip on a whim during a lax weekend is such a liberating freedom. It's hard to ever go back not having a car when you do. Plus, weekend transit is always inferior to weekdays and always has it's quirks, while parking is much easier.
Here's the catch: If you live in a place where parking is impossible, then my recommendation is different. Some cities have parking permits for residents, and that makes having a car much more liveable. If you have crazy alternate side parking rules (changes 2+x/wk) that do not take into consideration your residence, then I suggest paying the expense of monthly parking or simply ditching it.
Short answer: Great in most cities when you live 10+ minutes from the core. Impossible if you live in the core.
Freezing your arse standing at a bus stop in winter sucks big time.
Then the public transportation is not great. Great would be waiting for a short time in a heated station then boarding a train that gets you to the destination faster than you can drive.
I realize, most cities only have junky buses that are not reliable and everything about them is to discourage you from using them.
Yes. You have immense freedom with a car that is impossible with public transit. Travelling out to outside the city or doing a road trip on a whim during a lax weekend is such a liberating freedom. It's hard to ever go back not having a car when you do. Plus, weekend transit is always inferior to weekdays and always has it's quirks, while parking is much easier.
Here's the catch: If you live in a place where parking is impossible, then my recommendation is different. Some cities have parking permits for residents, and that makes having a car much more liveable. If you have crazy alternate side parking rules (changes 2+x/wk) that do not take into consideration your residence, then I suggest paying the expense of monthly parking or simply ditching it.
Short answer: Great in most cities when you live 10+ minutes from the core. Impossible if you live in the core.
I do enjoy the convenience of car ownership, but it comes with a hefty cost.
The perks of living in a big city(I mean a global city, alpha+ or alpha++) are cool enough for me to give up the comforts/luxury of car ownership. I would happily use the money that could be spent on car ownership to pay higher rent, if given the opportunity to do so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city
I live in Philadelphia, where pubic transportation is excellent. Going car-free is the best decision I have ever made! I can get around the city quicker on my bike/skateboard, by walking, and/or via SEPTA than I can through driving. People proclaim that the car is the ultimate form of freedom, yet I feel so much more free while riding my bike and not stuck within the confines of a vehicle. Public transportation also allows me to catch up on homework, write music, and/or fall asleep and catch up on some much-needed rest.
I plan on staying in Philly for the foreseeable future. I want to raise a family here, and I want to do it without a car. I can't stand the suburbs or auto-oriented cities (if I ever had to move from Philly, I would only consider NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Washington, D.C., and/or Baltimore). Planning places oriented towards the automobile, building portions of the Interstate Highway System, and decimating former transit systems were the worst mistakes ever made in the history of this nation.
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