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We have many roads with variable speed limits, and speed camera enforcement, plus only three lanes, sometimes two. These roads never run well, even though the supposed reason for the speed cameras is safety, they actually cause a sort of wave effect in the traffic, which leads to stationary traffic, and often accidents. An example of this is the M25, which if you are not off by 4pm, you will likely be on until at least 7pm, depending obviously on how far you need to go. (I've personally taken 5 hours to do 70 miles on a Friday evening, between 4pm and 9pm, but that was the M25 and the M4.) It's not just me, I know lorry drivers that have said the same, and they should know, it can cost them their licences to be driving too long.
Rural roads, probably wouldn't be considered roads by many, more like single tracks, winding, and often unmaintained.
We have many roads with variable speed limits, and speed camera enforcement, plus only three lanes, sometimes two. These roads never run well, even though the supposed reason for the speed cameras is safety, they actually cause a sort of wave effect in the traffic, which leads to stationary traffic, and often accidents. An example of this is the M25, which if you are not off by 4pm, you will likely be on until at least 7pm, depending obviously on how far you need to go. (I've personally taken 5 hours to do 70 miles on a Friday evening, between 4pm and 9pm, but that was the M25 and the M4.) It's not just me, I know lorry drivers that have said the same, and they should know, it can cost them their licences to be driving too long.
Rural roads, probably wouldn't be considered roads by many, more like single tracks, winding, and often unmaintained.
If you're in England - I found that out the hard way on my visit. I could tell those country roads were narrow, but I assumed they must still be two lanes, and made the mistake of setting the inside edge of my car at the centerline of the road so as to avoid a collision with any oncoming vehicles... and I didn't notice it, but the side of the car was actually getting brushed by the tips of shrubs which grow tight to the road's edge... the rental car people were not amused when I returned the car with a whole lotta scratches.
We have many roads with variable speed limits, and speed camera enforcement, plus only three lanes, sometimes two. These roads never run well, even though the supposed reason for the speed cameras is safety, they actually cause a sort of wave effect in the traffic, which leads to stationary traffic, and often accidents. An example of this is the M25, which if you are not off by 4pm, you will likely be on until at least 7pm, depending obviously on how far you need to go. (I've personally taken 5 hours to do 70 miles on a Friday evening, between 4pm and 9pm, but that was the M25 and the M4.) It's not just me, I know lorry drivers that have said the same, and they should know, it can cost them their licences to be driving too long.
Rural roads, probably wouldn't be considered roads by many, more like single tracks, winding, and often unmaintained.
If you're often going at low speeds and start and stop traffic, then your range is probably going to be better than what the vehicle is rated for or at least on the high side. Generally the figure thrown around for EV range is a combined city/highway driving and with the highway driving part usually eating up energy a lot more for various reasons but a primary one is that EVs are efficient and so expend close to only as much energy as they need to and fast speeds mean a lot of energy needs to be expended as the drag force increases by a square of velocity. If you're covering 100 miles in 4 hours, short of saying you covering 99 miles in 1 hr, and the last one mile in the next three hours, then you're not at high speeds very often and so will probably not eat up much power.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-11-2023 at 08:59 AM..
My now 8 year old Tesla doesn't supercharge very quickly compared to the newer cars, so I'd be more interested in getting more range. There is a company nearby that will swap my battery for a newer, larger one that will enable faster charging and more range, but costs $10k. I'm actually considering it because the only other option is a different car and much of that will be eaten up by sales tax, registration, and lost profit on the swap anyway.
But newer EVs that supercharge/DC fast charge at reasonable rates, there is just no need to pay for more range for 99% of the people. When you can go from 10% to 50% charge in 20 minutes, what's the point. The new Kias can do 10% to 80% in something crazy like 15 minutes; that's not much different than stopping for gas.
My now 8 year old Tesla doesn't supercharge very quickly compared to the newer cars, so I'd be more interested in getting more range. There is a company nearby that will swap my battery for a newer, larger one that will enable faster charging and more range, but costs $10k. I'm actually considering it because the only other option is a different car and much of that will be eaten up by sales tax, registration, and lost profit on the swap anyway.
But newer EVs that supercharge/DC fast charge at reasonable rates, there is just no need to pay for more range for 99% of the people. When you can go from 10% to 50% charge in 20 minutes, what's the point. The new Kias can do 10% to 80% in something crazy like 15 minutes; that's not much different than stopping for gas.
But I believe DC fast charging frequently isn't good for the battery. I'm sure it creates a lot of heat, even with thermal management.
But I believe DC fast charging frequently isn't good for the battery. I'm sure it creates a lot of heat, even with thermal management.
Oh I definitely agree with that, but OP sounded like he was focused on trips, which is where the fast charging comes into play. I charge at home 99% of the time but right now my slow fast charging is annoying when I want to do a 4-6 hour drive to go skiing on the weekends. It's probably 10 drives per year (5 weekends), so hard to justify buying a whole new car around it. Honestly considering just buying an old ICE for the ski trips. Or going all-in and trading the EV for a PHEV, even though I do really like my car.
My now 8 year old Tesla doesn't supercharge very quickly compared to the newer cars, so I'd be more interested in getting more range. There is a company nearby that will swap my battery for a newer, larger one that will enable faster charging and more range, but costs $10k. I'm actually considering it because the only other option is a different car and much of that will be eaten up by sales tax, registration, and lost profit on the swap anyway.
But newer EVs that supercharge/DC fast charge at reasonable rates, there is just no need to pay for more range for 99% of the people. When you can go from 10% to 50% charge in 20 minutes, what's the point. The new Kias can do 10% to 80% in something crazy like 15 minutes; that's not much different than stopping for gas.
I'm in the same boat as you. I've got a 11/13 built Tesla Model S 85 and the battery got nerfed by software updates some time in June of 2019. I've lost about 5% range, power, and the Supercharging sessions from 10%-80% now take about twice as long as they used to. My remedy is to consider upgrading to a 100kWh or the new "90" kWh from Tesla. Both will come with a warranty and cost about $22K after returning my working 85kW (it's really like 71 now). For now, we just keep our road-trips under 500 miles each way and generally don't Supercharge above 75%.
I think we're on the cusp of 3rd parties making improved battery packs where we won't be reliant on the original manufacturer.
As to the OP's question:
Every EVs powertrain is going to be different and there's a wide variety out there. Our 2013 Fiat 500e was a compliance vehicle that used off the shelf parts from Bosch mated to a custom battery from Samsung SDI. The actively thermal managed battery pack 24kWh weighs 600lb. The Bosch SMG 180/120 motor puts out 83kW of peak power and the reduction gear makes for impeccable torque at lower speeds, but sacrifices power above 50mph. We generally get about 4.3mi/kWh.
Our 2013 Tesla Model S 85 weighs about 4,700lbs has a 77kWh battery pack that weighs 1,200lbs (twice the weight of the Fiat, but more than 3X the energy capacity), and the motor puts out 283 kW (3.4X more than the Fiat). We generally get about 3.2mi/kWh but the newer models with dual motors are much more efficient.
As for towing a trailer, the efficiency will take a huge hit. There are some working prototypes of trailers with built in batteries and some with powertrains to help reduce this drag. I would expect to see more options when Rivian, Ford, GM, and other EV trucks start eating up marketshare.
I'm in the same boat as you. I've got a 11/13 built Tesla Model S 85 and the battery got nerfed by software updates some time in June of 2019. I've lost about 5% range, power, and the Supercharging sessions from 10%-80% now take about twice as long as they used to. My remedy is to consider upgrading to a 100kWh or the new "90" kWh from Tesla. Both will come with a warranty and cost about $22K after returning my working 85kW (it's really like 71 now). For now, we just keep our road-trips under 500 miles each way and generally don't Supercharge above 75%.
I think we're on the cusp of 3rd parties making improved battery packs where we won't be reliant on the original manufacturer.
As to the OP's question:
Every EVs powertrain is going to be different and there's a wide variety out there. Our 2013 Fiat 500e was a compliance vehicle that used off the shelf parts from Bosch mated to a custom battery from Samsung SDI. The actively thermal managed battery pack 24kWh weighs 600lb. The Bosch SMG 180/120 motor puts out 83kW of peak power and the reduction gear makes for impeccable torque at lower speeds, but sacrifices power above 50mph. We generally get about 4.3mi/kWh.
Our 2013 Tesla Model S 85 weighs about 4,700lbs has a 77kWh battery pack that weighs 1,200lbs (twice the weight of the Fiat, but more than 3X the energy capacity), and the motor puts out 283 kW (3.4X more than the Fiat). We generally get about 3.2mi/kWh but the newer models with dual motors are much more efficient.
As for towing a trailer, the efficiency will take a huge hit. There are some working prototypes of trailers with built in batteries and some with powertrains to help reduce this drag. I would expect to see more options when Rivian, Ford, GM, and other EV trucks start eating up marketshare.
They likely slowed down the charging because it was creating too much heat, and causing degradation.
I tried to post an actual picture of my trips screen but it's too large.
Last Trip: 13 miles, 294 wh/mi
I was having some fun.
Since last charge: 102 miles, 274 wh/m
I told you guys I drive a lot, that's my normal daily routine.
Total: 23,756 @ 285 wh/mi @ 6778 kWh
That's 23,756 miles in 11 months for all those "they're good around town cars, but that's it." lol
6778 kwh at my rate has cost me $949.
In my previous car, at an average 27mpg and of $3.00 gas, I'd have spent $2640. I haven't seen $3.00 gas in a long time. It was $3.29 this morning when I passed the gas station, and far above that for most of the time I've owned this car.
There's your real world experience line by line. The haters are blindly guessing. Always remember that.
I tried to post an actual picture of my trips screen but it's too large.
Last Trip: 13 miles, 294 wh/mi
I was having some fun.
Since last charge: 102 miles, 274 wh/m
I told you guys I drive a lot, that's my normal daily routine.
Total: 23,756 @ 285 wh/mi @ 6778 kWh
That's 23,756 miles in 11 months for all those "they're good around town cars, but that's it." lol
6778 kwh at my rate has cost me $949.
In my previous car, at an average 27mpg and of $3.00 gas, I'd have spent $2640. I haven't seen $3.00 gas in a long time. It was $3.29 this morning when I passed the gas station, and far above that for most of the time I've owned this car.
There's your real world experience line by line. The haters are blindly guessing. Always remember that.
That equals to 75mpg, which is impressive, when compared to an ICE car. Now, it also means your HH consumed an extra 6778 KWH that it wouldn't have, if you had not bought an EV.
Here in CA, an average HH uses 8544 kwh per year. You used 75% of an annual CA HH consumption with only one (rather small by US standards) car. Assume two cars per HH and imagine all homeowners switched to EVs overnight.
Wouldn't it be like cloning all households and doubling the electrical usage?
What exact grid is this going to come out of?
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