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A lot of theories with "Batterygate." Early on some folks including myself noticed a few headlines about battery fires. Spring of 2019 rolls by and after the software update that nerfed the 85kWh battery pack there seems to be have a drop in battery fires (none that I can remember). Others thought Tesla did this for warranty issues and wanted to get as many battery packs over the 8 year/unlimited mileage warranty. For whatever the reason, Tesla has not been forthcoming and we may never know the reason why there were a string of battery fires before the update, and why some battery packs were nerfed while others were restored. Jason Hughes did a pretty solid write-up but it would be nice for Tesla to more transparent...and for this reason I'm hoping this Tesla will be my last Tesla unless the company makes a series of management and directional changes.
Here is a link to his findings and please be respectful of his copyright.
But back to relating this to the OP's question, perhaps it should be considered that manufacturers may suddenly reduce the range and power of their product through future software updates. In most cases, the software updates usually benefit the functionality and usability of the car, but in my case above has shown to be a mild inconvenience.
That equals to 75mpg, which is impressive, when compared to an ICE car. Now, it also means your HH consumed an extra 6778 KWH that it wouldn't have, if you had not bought an EV.
Here in CA, an average HH uses 8544 kwh per year. You used 75% of an annual CA HH consumption with only one (rather small by US standards) car. Assume two cars per HH and imagine all homeowners switched to EVs overnight.
Wouldn't it be like cloning all households and doubling the electrical usage?
What exact grid is this going to come out of?
He doesn't live in California. California gas prices are also higher than average so it's not like there was going to be a great savings by switching to gas. No one who isn't completely off their rocker thinks this is going to be a sudden switch overnight especially given the median age of the US fleet is about 12 years old and plugins aren't yet at 10% new vehicle market share. Grids are built for peak draws and power during peak draws versus off-peak are massively different and there are pretty easy ways to move most EV charging to off-peak in which case it's load balancing of the grid and actually more efficient usage. These bits have been covered ad nauseum on this forum, and there is not a single thing you mentioned that points to you offering useful tidbits as an EV owner who could give some real world power usage statistics as opposed to regurgitating points covered over and over again.
He doesn't live in California. California gas prices are also higher than average so it's not like there was going to be a great savings by switching to gas. No one who isn't completely off their rocker thinks this is going to be a sudden switch overnight especially given the median age of the US fleet is about 12 years old and plugins aren't yet at 10% new vehicle market share. Grids are built for peak draws and power during peak draws versus off-peak are massively different and there are pretty easy ways to move most EV charging to off-peak in which case it's load balancing of the grid and actually more efficient usage. These bits have been covered ad nauseum on this forum, and there is not a single thing you mentioned that points to you offering useful tidbits as an EV owner who could give some real world power usage statistics as opposed to regurgitating points covered over and over again.
Would you be as kind as to point out to the flaw in the numbers Airborne guy supplied and I only used to make a point? Who said there would be savings if switching to gas? His mpgs are 75, so there is nothing to switch to that would give him even close to that. Everyone is aware of the off-peak hours. That saves money and load on grid, but kwhs are kwhs. We also know the change will be gradual, but eventually it looks like it would need to be doubled because as Airborne guy's figures show, two cars would really mean double the usage for an average HH. Is anyone suggesting doubling the grid's capacity by then is my question? I really don't know. All I've heard are some targets and goals by 2035.
As to my own experience with EV, I have been driving my GF's Prime for 5 years now. She charges at night, when it's cheaper and she does notice quite a bit of a difference on her annual bill, compared to before. That's on a new home that has some solar panels installed and is efficient. However, it is way cheaper than gas would be for the same miles. On a PHEV, it's a little bit harder to calculate all this as the car is very efficient even on gas alone. I guess one can assume 365 x 3.3 = 1204.5 kwh. The overall kwhs are probably not a significant % of the overall usage, as they are for a fully electric car, but she does notice the difference for sure.
but eventually it looks like it would need to be doubled because as Airborne guy's figures show, two cars would really mean double the usage for an average HH. Is anyone suggesting doubling the grid's capacity by then is my question? I really don't know. All I've heard are some targets and goals by 2035.
The goal for 2035 is for all NEW CARS SOLD in California and NY to be electric (or electrified). Not that all cars will be electric. There wil lbe gas cars for decades. So it'll still be decades before we need to have the grid cover them. But, here's the deal:
I have an EV that uses about 180kWh a month to drive ~900 miles a month (about average for the American driver). My electric use for the whole house was 1800kWh a month (about $180 not including delivery fees at my 10c/kWh rate), due to it being all electric (washer, dryer, water heater, refrigerator, stove A/C). The EV adds about $24 a month. About 10-12% additional. TWO of these EVs would add about 20% use to the house. Not DOUBLE. Your math is way off. And this is about typical. If we shift most EV charging to off peak hours, we'd have to add 20-25% capacity to the off peak grid, which wouldn't even make it back to what on peak consumption is. Add to that the reduction in electricity for gasoline refining, transport, and pumping at gas stations and you can see that there really isn't a large increase in electric consumption, and definitely not double or triple.
We had no problems adding ~100 Terawatts of electrical consumption for bitcoin mining over the last 6 years, and more than that for the large Amazon and Google (and other) regional datacenters that consume a LOT of electricity even at on-peak hours.
EVs, even if we all had them, are a drop in the bucket compared to residential and commercial A/C use as well as lighting and computing use.
I just thought this may be a good place to get the answers right from those that know.
I'm just looking for things such as weight of the car, speed travelled, and how many watts are being consumed at whatever speed.
Just playing with ideas for extended range.
Many thanks.
38 mpg average, battery and ICE. On battery alone, Zero, since the battery is recharged as I drive and brake on the flat. The car only uses its second engine ICE up grades or when power is required.
Last edited by Mistermobile; 01-13-2023 at 07:50 AM..
Reason: explanation
The goal for 2035 is for all NEW CARS SOLD in California and NY to be electric (or electrified). Not that all cars will be electric. There wil lbe gas cars for decades. So it'll still be decades before we need to have the grid cover them. But, here's the deal:
I have an EV that uses about 180kWh a month to drive ~900 miles a month (about average for the American driver). My electric use for the whole house was 1800kWh a month (about $180 not including delivery fees at my 10c/kWh rate), due to it being all electric (washer, dryer, water heater, refrigerator, stove A/C). The EV adds about $24 a month. About 10-12% additional. TWO of these EVs would add about 20% use to the house. Not DOUBLE. Your math is way off.
Feel free to go back and read Airborne Guy's post and my response. I used his figures, not mine.
This is what he originally posted:
Total(miles): 23,756 @ 285 wh/mi @ 6778 kWh (and this was for 11 months).
I never claimed it is double, but rather 75% roughly (it's closer to 80% actually).
My point was that if a typical HH owns two cars and drives as much as he does, which is typical here in CA, we would really need to double the grid's capacity to accommodate full adoption.
It doesn't matter how much a kwh costs. Money is a concept Physics couldn't care less about.
Regarding 2035, I know all the details and how long it will take to full adoption. Again the point is that not much time is spent talking about the grid.
In any case, the purpose of this thread is for you EV owners to exchange real usage info, and I'll leave this thread as I don't have an EV. It is good for you not to use as much electricity as Airborne Guy does, but the real question is who is more representative.
Regarding 2035, I know all the details and how long it will take to full adoption. Again the point is that not much time is spent talking about the grid.
You must be missing 90% of the discussions about EVs and a LOT of discussion is about the grid, and electric companies are ALWAYS talking about it (Southern California Edison did a study a couple years back that showed they could had half the car in California being electric which mostly charging at night, and not have to add ANY capacity to the grid).
Quote:
In any case, the purpose of this thread is for you EV owners to exchange real usage info, and I'll leave this thread as I don't have an EV. It is good for you not to use as much electricity as Airborne Guy does, but the real question is who is more representative.
Many, MANY studies have been done and the average in the US is under 40 miles a day, or about 12-15,000 miles a year (which is why leases are structured that way and why used cars are described as high or low miles with average miles being about 12k miles per year). 12k miles per year is about 1000 miles a month, which is about spot on where I'm at. So I think overall, I'm more representative of the norm. And I add about 10% additional usage per month with my EV. 2 of them, (which probably would have each get used less, as my wife and I simply don't go everywhere separately) would add MAYBE 20% load to the house. Average that across the population and you would need to generate about 20% more electricity than now, and most of that would be at night when the demand and load is ALREADY lower by more than that much.
Do you see where I'm coming from yet?
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Accord 2017 Hybrid in hilly Pa
