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Old 03-22-2014, 08:47 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,805,587 times
Reputation: 5478

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky1949 View Post
Oh my god! I just heard two CNN commentators playing an example of the "ping" given off by the plane to a satellite or other sensor. They were both shocked by the fact that it wasn't very loud. It was coming off a scope of some kind, together with the squiggle (highly technical term) shown on the scope with each ping. They commented on how such a low volume sound had to compete with the sounds of ocean animals and such; and even how the seagulls and other birds in the air making sounds would make it difficult to hear. I kid you not. Where do they find these people that don't understand that it is an electronic signal? Maybe just turn up the volume knob?
"Ping" is a funny term. It means different things at different times. The "ping" you hear about with respect to the black boxes is in fact an acoustic signal. It is not generally in the range of human hearing so it has to be transformed somehow to hear it...but it is an acoustic signal sent through water.

We also sometimes refer to the "ping" of a radar signal hitting something. But that is pretty much a mental exercise to represent an electronic signal bouncing off an object.

Sometimes we talk about a "ping" to start an electronic conversation. One transmitter sends an "anybody around" signal then listens to see if anyone or someone specific responds.

I suspect the "ping" involved was the acoustic one...but I did not hear the program.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:21 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,166,733 times
Reputation: 8105
So the pieces of whatever were seen once each by satellites, but none of the many ones up there could keep track of it. Hooookay. I feel like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Until the media gets more solid info on the where abouts of this plane i'm starting to lose interest in the story..
Opinion and speculation can only go so far,at 2 weeks we've heard just about every theory..
Yup, same here.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,555 posts, read 10,981,308 times
Reputation: 10808
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am pretty tired of this useless garbage bandied back and forth from all these different government officials.
We are in what, day 12?
Why don't they just admit they have no idea what happened to the plane from the minute it went silent?
The planer did this, the communications did that.
They don't know any more than we average people do.
I think my theory posted much earlier could actually be what is behind the disappearance of this aircraft.
If for one brief moment I could speak to the officials in charge, I would say but one thing:----
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Attached Thumbnails
Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 missing with 239 aboard.-no-bullshit.jpg  
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Seoul
11,554 posts, read 9,329,863 times
Reputation: 4660
Indonesia apparently did not see the plane on radar. However, the plane passed through Pulau Perak, which is less than hundred miles away from Indonesia. Is their radar so weak that they can't see a huge plane from less than a hundred miles away?
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:44 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,805,587 times
Reputation: 5478
Let us not get carried away folks.

It is a difficult problem.

The satellites can see the earth with great precision...but they don't see the difference between a white cap and a piece of debri very well.

So humans have to look through thousands and thousands of views looking for the few discrepant ones.

And if they have the capability to actually find debris with the machines and quickly they are not willing to disclose it. All the analysts are setting there ready to learn from who produces what.

Could some of the radars have tracked this plane as it went pass? Probably...but only if they were looking for it or looking for anything. In general for many radar installation they may be interested only in certain targets...those associated with their mission...and they may actually block others. A defense oriented first world nation may very well track and assess any target bigger than a bird. But a more relaxed nation may track only those things likely to land within the realm.

I suspect we are about to change the rules for tracking commercial air planes as a result of this disaster...but we have refrained from doing so up to this point.

We had a set of rules that let hijackers seize an airplane and directed that no resistance be made...up until 9/11. Different now. Same thing with tracking I expect.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Fiorina "Fury" 161
3,531 posts, read 3,734,097 times
Reputation: 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
I think a big part of the problem in this whole thing is that various countries do not want to share their radar data or reveal any facts about radar capabilities. I am wondering why we have not heard a peep from Indonesia - 370 flew either right over it or very near it.
Smartphones have auto tracking as well as far as location data. You have to manually turn that feature off. If the plane flew over or near Indonesia, or any other part of land with cell reception/cell towers, wouldn't the passengers cellphones be trackable by those phones trying to connect with the service or something to that effect? The plane flew for seven hours.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:44 PM
 
12,981 posts, read 14,535,447 times
Reputation: 19739
There was just an interview with Australian officials who say that some of the debris they spotted looked like wooden pallets, and some of it looked like kind of straps.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,461,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetlord View Post
Smartphones have auto tracking as well as far as location data. You have to manually turn that feature off. If the plane flew over or near Indonesia, or any other part of land with cell reception/cell towers, wouldn't the passengers cellphones be trackable by those phones trying to connect with the service or something to that effect? The plane flew for seven hours.
Typically not once the plane gets above 10,000 feet (if even that high). I'm actually thinking closer to around 3,000 feet. Cell towers are typically "pointed" down not up to provide better reception to people on the ground. A lot of phones have some sort of "Airplane Mode" on them too which will turn all that stuff off. Sure, not everyone does it but a lot of people do. The likelihood of even getting a cell signal in the air is very slim.

I know what's next... "What about the people on the 9/11 aircraft?" Most of them used those old school "Airfones" that used to live on the seat back. Those did not use cell towers but a sort of satellite setup. Most aircraft don't even have "Airfones" anymore anyway. As for the remaining few who did manage to make cell calls... That wasn't until after the aircraft were below a certain altitude (I swear it's like 3,000 feet now that I keep typing) that they were able to make the calls.

But, long story short, if you're flying at 35,000 feet, you're probably not getting a cell signal.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:09 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,211 posts, read 107,931,771 times
Reputation: 116159
Interesting how ocean currents work. And how fast they move. It only took 2 weeks for the plane to get from Andaman Island to southwest of Australia:







And the plane had, indeed, made a turn toward the northwest after passing through Indonesian airspace and radar range, just as they'd said nearly two weeks ago. If the map is to be believed.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 03-23-2014 at 12:21 AM..
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,461,151 times
Reputation: 4317
Part 2 of my diatribe:

Being in aviation, heck, having grown up in aviation, I've been fed information about aircraft crash investigations nearly my whole life. There is almost always one consistent factor that arises in a crash investigation: the cause of a crash is almost never due to one thing but a number of things (usually very strange or odd events) working against the dynamics of safe flight.

90% of the time, crashes are attributed, generally speaking, to crew action or inaction. While the flight crews do assign a certain magnitude of blame to themselves when they sit in the seats, it's rare (if it ever happens) that they simply "Whoopsie" and crash an airplane like a 16 year-old with the keys to the family car.

Usually, it's a bunch of factors leading up to the "Whoopsie" that causes the pilots to do something out of the ordinary which subsequently ends up in a crash. Such was the case with AF447 - the co-pilot basically violated the first rule of stall procedures but not until after he had bells, whistles, and everything else in the world blaring in his ears. Having worked on aircraft for a number of years and having been heavily involved with every aspect of the complex avionics systems, I do know that one thing aviation is good at is finding statistical anomalies. Airlines want to keep their planes flying as long as possible because that's how they're making money. They make no money sitting on the ground. So, when an airline has 100, 200, or even 500 airplanes, they're running hundreds of flights each day. Hundreds of flights each day, adds up to tens of thousands of flights a year and hundreds of thousands of flights over the years. With the complexities that aircraft have, it is not unlikely that a strange situation will occur where you say "What are the odds that 'x' and 'y' and 'z' and 'xx' and 'yy' and 'zz' happened all at the same time? Well, actually, I've repaired a number of aircraft where that just so happened to be the case. Sometimes you have to really think outside the box and when you explain it to your manager or to the maintenance operations center, you say, "Yeah. The plane's been flying like that for two years - at least. No, sir, I don't know why it's never been written up before. Yes, sir, I know it sounds crazy but it's the only explanation. Yes, sir, that wire was never even installed in the connector."

It happens. I see stuff day in and day out and you scratch your head and say "Damn. How the heck did it get like that?"

So, knowing all that, and as much as I like to think a nefarious pilot stole an airplane and is packing it full of cocaine and heroin for some South American drug lord - I seriously doubt that's what happened. Aliens didn't abduct it. And though pilot suicide is possible, I don't necessarily completely buy it either.

I think it's every bit as likely, given what I've seen in past accident investigations that the crew may have entered their flight plan incorrectly and, yep, you guessed it, never even noticed the aircraft turned. A lot of Asian airlines (particularly the Koreans) have come under a lot of scrutiny in the past because of Crew Resource Management - aka - the first officer isn't allowed to tell the big man in the left seat that he screwed up.

It happens. I've seen aircraft nearly break their tails off because flight crews entered a landing weight 100,000 lbs. heavier (or was it lighter? I can't remember ) than it was supposed to be. And maybe the first officer noticed it and decided it was best to keep his mouth shut. Or, maybe the captain was in the bathroom when the plane turned and the first officer made the mistake. Or vice versa. Remember, human factors are the biggest causes of accidents and incidents in aviation.

After "The Turn," I think it's every bit as likely that something else happened. A fire broke out, there was rapid decompression, you name it... Or maybe the crew got locked out of the cockpit (yeah that's happened too). Why? Because another set of unlikely events occurred. Someone forgot to store some Lithium Ion batteries correctly. Someone pencil-whipped a structural inspection. Someone did this... Someone did that... That's what happens in scenarios like this. You just say "You mean to tell me that 'so and so did this' and 'so and so did that?'" Yep... That's exactly what I'm saying.

Now, suddenly, there's some sort of emergency on board the aircraft, you're headed in the wrong direction, and the captain is back there choking to death on burning lithium-ion battery fumes as he beats on the cockpit door he's locked himself out of. Then he hears the lavatory door open and the first officers steps out from behind him.

Or, maybe, everyone's panicking and you're the first officer with 2,000 hours in the right seat while the captain is snoozing... What do you do? Wake him up or fix the problem? Maybe you figure you'll go to a higher altitude to choke the fire out. Maybe you make a few other turns to try and get yourself back on course. Maybe you just make some flat out panicky mistakes.

Or, maybe junior was locked out of the bathroom and the captain with all those flight hours made a few mistakes. It can happen. Maybe after all that happened, they lost pressurization, had a new heading dialed in on the autopilot and they all suffocated. But, the 777 being the airplane that it is, didn't crash until it ran out of fuel.

Or, maybe the mechanic forgot to take his wrench out from under the electrical panel and as the plane was flying it was bouncing around shorting out all the electrical systems and starting fires.

I'm not saying there was a fire. I'm not saying the crews DID enter something incorrectly. What I'm saying is that if/when the investigation comes out, you will read about things just LIKE that. Everything adds up to catastrophe - from the amount of sleep the flights crews had the night before, to the moment the plane drops out of the sky.

I'll admit, a good aviation mystery floors me and I love to speculate as much as the next person but it'll most likely be something far more rational than what most are thinking. Just remember... "A series of unfortunate and untimely events..." That's the type of wording you'll see in most investigations.

Last edited by GCSTroop; 03-23-2014 at 12:34 AM..
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