Baltimore City SAT scores (2014, lawyers, buying)

[baltplanner]

Most high schools in Baltimore City have an average SAT score of less than 700 (Reading and Math) Look up any Baltimore-area schools? SAT scores - Baltimore Business Journal.

As a point of reference the national average is generally around 1000. I don't blame upwardly mobile people from moving out of the city once they have kids. If I were a parent I would want my kids to be surrounded by smart children.... and statistically that's just not going to happen in Baltimore City.

[Hamish Forbes]

This is amazing. The median (average?) math SAT at Poly is down to 505, and it's only 441 at City. Holy moley.

It would be interesting to see the distribution of Poly's scores. In pre-apocalypse Baltimore, a graduate of Poly's "A Course" could get directly into the second year of engineering school at Hopkins, Stanford, and MIT. My Dad was an "A Course" graduate of the early 1930s . . .

[mpheels]

SAT scores are not a good metric for assessing an entire school district. IMO, it is even a good way of predicting if an individual student will succeed in college. Does every student in the city take the SAT? The test is only necessary and appropriate for students who are planning to attend college. If a student is planning to attend a trade school or work after graduation, they do not need to take the SAT, and they are not probably not going to put the in the hours needed to prep for the test. If you really look at school districts with high SAT scores, you will find that many students are hiring private tutors to help with test prep. At the very least, they are buying test prep books (which are not cheap!). The real measure of school quality should be if students who go to college are prepared to complete college level work, and if students who enter the work force have the skills they need to work.

[Hamish Forbes]

I live in a high-SAT district now, and virtually nobody hires a private tutor here. We also spend about half what Baltimore spends per-student (according to Wiki, Baltimore City public schools have the second-highest per-student spending in the United States).

[baltplanner]

Originally Posted by mpheels

SAT scores are not a good metric for assessing an entire school district. IMO, it is even a good way of predicting if an individual student will succeed in college. Does every student in the city take the SAT? The test is only necessary and appropriate for students who are planning to attend college. If a student is planning to attend a trade school or work after graduation, they do not need to take the SAT, and they are not probably not going to put the in the hours needed to prep for the test. If you really look at school districts with high SAT scores, you will find that many students are hiring private tutors to help with test prep. At the very least, they are buying test prep books (which are not cheap!). The real measure of school quality should be if students who go to college are prepared to complete college level work, and if students who enter the work force have the skills they need to work.

About half of college bound Baltimore City High school students will need to take remedial classes in college to be on par with their classmates Boosting college readiness is goal for new Baltimore City schools CEO - Baltimore Sun.

I'm speaking in terms of group statistics not individual ability, and on that measure I can't find much hope or impressive intellectual achievement coming out of Baltimore City high schools.

I think you're grasping for straws. Looking for any excuse to deny the obvious: That high achieving individuals with children (of all races and ethnicity) have left the city, and that what's left is a concentrated population of the regions least intelligent, least promising individuals.

[P47P47]

Originally Posted by mpheels

...put in the hours needed to prep for the test. If you really look at school districts with high SAT scores, you will find that many students are hiring private tutors to help with test prep. At the very least, they are buying test prep books (which are not cheap!).

That's something that has certainly changed since I took the SAT 40 years ago. At that time, our teachers and guidance councilors told us, "It's not the kind of test you can study for. Just get a good night's sleep the night before the test and have some breakfast that morning. And be sure to have at least three sharp #2 pencils."

[baltplanner]

I'm stealing this from a post a teacher put up on another site. I think it's particularly relevant:

There are some essential skills necessary for school success - If the Black community wanted to help their young men succeed in school they would do well to concentrate on these. Among them are:

-The ability to wait your turn and not blurt out
-The ability to control your temper if things don't go your way
-The ability to power through tasks that are boring or difficult
-A basic respect for authority and an understanding that sometimes rules and decisions are arbitrary -
-A respect for the classroom atmosphere as a place where learning takes place, not a place to show off or show how tough you are.
-A value placed on education as a way to better your life
-A willingness to ask for help if you need it.

If students from all backgrounds came to school with these skills, American schools would be a big success.
However, in schools that are failing, teachers must spend an inordinate amount of time just to get the kids to sit down and listen. Teacher requests are often met with challenges. Teachers don't get any back up from administrators who are busy compiling statistics on how many of each racial group are disciplined and don't have the spine to stand up to parents. The result is what you would logically think - the better students flee to private schools and the better teachers leave. Now the school starts a spiral downwards. I would suggest that wanting all students to have these skills is in no way racist, but many on The Root will refer to them as such. More energy is spend resisting change than trying to improve.

I have spent time in Poverty schools and this is a factual observation. Another thing that happens is that some students make a simple class request (such as to move away from their buddies) into a very disruptive exchange and that is why some students get more punishment than others. If a kid sullenly moves and doesn't say anything, problem solved. However if a student turns this into a loud verbal confrontation he or she will be sent to the office. Nothing to do with race - everything to do with behavior.

[Tinawina]

Originally Posted by P47P47

That's something that has certainly changed since I took the SAT 40 years ago. At that time, our teachers and guidance councilors told us, "It's not the kind of test you can study for. Just get a good night's sleep the night before the test and have some breakfast that morning. And be sure to have at least three sharp #2 pencils."

It's still not really supposed to be something you study for, though people do prep courses sometimes. But even those don't tend to move the needle a huge amount.

The SAT is more of a reflection or your college preparation up until that point. It really is measuring a combination of the quality of your schooling and the degree to which you've absorbed what you were exposed to, with a little bit of test taking skills thrown in.

Given the state of Baltimore City schools from the elementary level on, those SAT scores are not surprising. It's not like we see great outcomes on the 3rd grade level either.

[Calvert Hall '62]

Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes

This is amazing. The median (average?) math SAT at Poly is down to 505, and it's only 441 at City. Holy moley.

It would be interesting to see the distribution of Poly's scores. In pre-apocalypse Baltimore, a graduate of Poly's "A Course" could get directly into the second year of engineering school at Hopkins, Stanford, and MIT. My Dad was an "A Course" graduate of the early 1930s . . .

"Pre-apocalypse," Luv it.

As far as Baltimore's public schools went, future engineers, architects, and the like cut their teeth at Poly, while future MDs, pharmacists, CPAs, and lawyers got their starts at City. That was the belief then, and I have no reason to doubt it.

But that was a different era in a different Baltimore in a different America.

[mpheels]

Originally Posted by baltplanner

About half of college bound Baltimore City High school students will need to take remedial classes in college to be on par with their classmates Boosting college readiness is goal for new Baltimore City schools CEO - Baltimore Sun.

I'm speaking in terms of group statistics not individual ability, and on that measure I can't find much hope or impressive intellectual achievement coming out of Baltimore City high schools.

I think you're grasping for straws. Looking for any excuse to deny the obvious: That high achieving individuals with children (of all races and ethnicity) have left the city, and that what's left is a concentrated population of the regions least intelligent, least promising individuals.

I'm not at all trying to deny the state of the city's schools. I'm saying that average SAT scores are not a good measure. What you posted regarding remedial classes in college is far more meaningful.