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Duncan not a top 10 alltime player? The guy is about to win his 5th ring( in three different decades) 2 mvps, 3(possibly 4) finals mvps, multiple all nba and defensive teams, considered the best power forward ever......and there are ten guys better than that?
Most playoff minutes, double doubles, blocks, #3 playoff rebounds, #5 playoff points, #2 playoff games. 17 seasons, 17 consecutive playoffs. Most consecutive all nba and all defense 1st team selections. 16- 50 win seasons. Currently 11th all time in rebounding 19th in points, 7th in blocks. He will move up in all 3 categories of he plays next season.
Back to back mvps, 3 finals mvps, 14 all defense, 14 all nba, 14 allstar, rookie of the year, USA basketball player of the year, consensus athlete of the year (2003)
The list just goes on and on.
Tim Duncan is EASILY top 10 all time. Take nostalgia out of the conversation and you can't name 10 players with better credentials. that's not even looking at per game stats.
Oh, and you mention meaningless AS MVP's but ignore Finals MVP's..........BWAH HAH HAH HAH.
Yeah, I do think Mr. Black makes some good points, but being an all-star MVP is a joke. The all-star came is basically a casual exhibition until the last 5 minutes or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
The list just goes on and on.
Tim Duncan is EASILY top 10 all time. Take nostalgia out of the conversation and you can't name 10 players with better credentials. that's not even looking at per game stats.
Not only nostalgia, but Duncan is probably the quietest and modest great player ever, at least for a big-man. He didn't physically dominate like Shaq or Wilt, and he didn't make very many fancy shots like Jordan or Kobe.
Duncan just plays the game efficiently without much flash or flare. Consequently, I understand why some people might be inclined to think he's overrated. But in terms of what he does for his team overall, he's absolutely in the top 10.
He's' also one of most selfless and humble great players. Jordan, Kobe, Magic, and were all phenomenal players who knew how good they were and acted like it. I don't know if Duncan know how good he is (or was in his prime), but he's never, ever, displayed any hint of egotism as far as I can tell. Whenever he's won the Finals MVP he's always thanked his teammates and coach first and foremost. Despite all the individual awards he's received, he genuinely doesn't seem to care that much about them. He cares more about his team and winning than about his own gratification. I don't know if there's ever been another truly great player who's that selfless and team-oriented.
I haven't been into the NBA as much in the 2000's as I was in the 90's, but I think Duncan is easily top 10 all time if he gets his 5th ring.
He kind of reminds me of a new Kareem Abdul Jabbar. In terms of the longevity and consistency. Kareem had points and a modest approach. Duncan has playoff stats almost equally impressive as kareems regular season records.
Duncan owns almost every important career playoff stat. That's extremely impressive.
I can't believe people are saying he 'enters' the top ten with a 5th ring. Are you kidding me? A case can be made that this guy has had as good a, if not better, career as guys like magic and bird who are on most people's top 6 or so players list. He's already top ten, and entering top 5 category if he wins this ring. MJ, Kareem, Wilt,Russell....after that I feel you can throw Duncan in the mix with magic/bird and ahead of Shaq and Kobe, at least in terms of overall accolades and sustained excellence.
Most playoff minutes, double doubles, blocks, #3 playoff rebounds, #5 playoff points, #2 playoff games. 17 seasons, 17 consecutive playoffs. Most consecutive all nba and all defense 1st team selections. 16- 50 win seasons. Currently 11th all time in rebounding 19th in points, 7th in blocks. He will move up in all 3 categories of he plays next season.
Back to back mvps, 3 finals mvps, 14 all defense, 14 all nba, 14 allstar, rookie of the year, USA basketball player of the year, consensus athlete of the year (2003)
The list just goes on and on.
Tim Duncan is EASILY top 10 all time. Take nostalgia out of the conversation and you can't name 10 players with better credentials. that's not even looking at per game stats.
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Shaq
Hakeeem
Kobe
Oscar
I wouldn't say Duncan isn't better than one of those guys, but all of them have strong cases for being top 10. So as to Duncan being easily top 10, not true....
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Shaq
Hakeeem
Kobe
Oscar
I wouldn't say Duncan isn't better than one of those guys, but all of them have strong cases for being top 10. So as to Duncan being easily top 10, not true....
Again take nastalgia out of it, Kobe, not better, shaq, about even even though shaq has many less games as he was unsustainable due to constant injury, not better after the ring this year, Hakeem, ehhh only better for a short period not consistently better.
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Shaq
Hakeeem
Kobe
Oscar
I wouldn't say Duncan isn't better than one of those guys, but all of them have strong cases for being top 10. So as to Duncan being easily top 10, not true....
Shaq? No. Duncan is on par with him.
Hakeem? Yes, he's good. But are you kidding me? He is not better than Duncan at all.
Kobe? The only reason I'd make a strong case for him being "better" is that he moves more jerseys and has had great success in the Olympics. I'd say he's in the same pantheon as Duncan and Shaq.
Lists are completely subjective. A guy can have the hardware and stats and it won't matter because people simply like (or are familiar with) other players.
Again take nastalgia out of it, Kobe, not better, shaq, about even even though shaq has many less games as he was unsustainable due to constant injury, not better after the ring this year, Hakeem, ehhh only better for a short period not consistently better.
In his prime Shaq was the most dominant low-post force I've ever seen (Wilt was way before my time). There was simply no one who could do anything with him other than foul him.
That said, I would argue that Duncan is a bit better overall because he's a more complete player. In his prime his was nearly as dominant in the post, but he can also score more than 10' away from the basket. Virtually all of Shaq's points came in the paint as either dunks or short lay-ups. Keep him out of the paint (not easy, but possible when he got older) and he couldn't score to save his life. Duncan can score with jump-shots, and he uses the backboard better than any other big-man I've seen in the modern era.
Also, Duncan has won all his championships with the same team, whereas Shaq's 4th championship in my Miami is sort of nominal. Mourning actually played a much more significant role when the Heat won the 2006 Finals; Shaq was hampered by injury during much of the playoffs, and didn't do a whole lot in Finals.
Considering he's a more complete and balanced player, has had better longevity, and has never had any silly spats with any of his teammates (Shaq and Kobe), I think a compelling argument can be made for Duncan being better than Shaq.
It's difficult to compare Duncan and Kobe. Kobe is the second best pure 2 guard ever (behind Jordan), while Duncan is one of the most skilled post-players ever. I would say they're about even, but they're such completely different types of players, comparing them is hard.
My top ten:
Magic
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
Oscar Robinson
Duncan
Bird
Bryant
Hakeem-Shaq (tie)
[Note: I had difficulty deciding the order of the last 3. Also, I think it's safe to say Lebron will be on the list eventually, but since he's still as at least a few more years in his prime I can't say definitively where I'd put him.]
Last edited by HardCortex; 06-15-2014 at 04:43 PM..
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