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Manu is good, I'm not going to trash him like other people might out of their nuthug love for South Beach, but in the NBA Manu's primary role has been as a great 6th man, except for that one season where he started pretty much every game in 2010 (I believe).
But in nearly every important NBA statistical category; points per game, steals, rebounds, FG%, Dwayne is simply better than Manu. PERs, 100 possessions? It's not even close. From 2004 to 2011, you could make a case for Dwayne Wade being a Top 5 player in the league every single season. Can you say the same for Manu?
Heck, the year that Wade lead his team to the finals and won the championship at 24 years old was some of the best basketball I've ever seen (and I was already an NBA fanatic during the Bird-Johnson rivalry years). Look at the numbers during that playoff year; 28.4 ppg, .497 FG%, 5.7 assist, 5.9 rebounds, 38% from beyond the arc! Those are straight up Michael Jordan type numbers. Manu has NEVER had a run like that in the regular or post season.
Anyway, I know there's a lot of Spurs love right now (and I for one am glad they got it this year), but the type of nuthugging that is coming out now from Spurs fans is kind of ridiculous.
Where you are confused is that I'm not saying Manu was a better player than Wade.
Really, we had a great big thread here about the HOF and what gets you in that you missed because frankly you are a casual.
You'd get a whole lot less worked up if you educated yourself on how heavily international play and euro play etc. get factored into the decision.
I already explained this to you and you come back foaming and sputtering NBA stats at me which tells me you didn't even read carefully.
Seriously, you cannot possibly be this obtuse but just in case......
IT'S NOT THE NBA HALL OF FAME!
Go read up on the BASKETBALL HOF and stop wasting our time and embarassing yourself at the same time.
Ugh. Should I even continue discussing this with you? I'm really hesitant. You just tried to compare Dirk to Duncan, two guys with totally different styles of play. Then you went further and tried to compare Duncan to two point guards. Yeah I think we're done here. Have a good day.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out casual. See ya back here in 11 months.
Also, let's be honest, the international side has some great players and their accomplishments are respectable, but ever since the U.S has started sending its elite to the Olympics in 1992 and FIBA championships, the U.S has dominated and destroyed the competition. The international community has managed one Olympic gold in 5 tries, and the one time that the US didn't win (in Athens), it was because the team was full of rookies (Melo, LBJ, Wade), and the actual BEST players in the league like Kobe, Shaq, Garnett, McGrady, Kidd, chose not to participate.
For goodness sake, Emeka Okafor made that team.
That's why NBA accomplishments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Int'l accomplishments by far.
Those aren't role-player numbers, that's a monster game by any standard
Good he had one good game in last years Finals, is that supposed to prove a point today? Did I say Duncan wasn't capable of having a good game? Even Paul Pierce had a 22 point game in the playoffs. Old guys with talent can sometimes do well in a single game. And guess what? The Spurs still lost the series that year.
Quote:
There is no serious doubt that Duncan is top 10 AT - the only question is where in the top 10 does he belong.
No, there is doubt and questions or else this thread wouldn't be 6 pages long. I actually don't have a problem with anyone who does put him in the Top 10, there are reasons for him being there without 2014 included but I can also see a valid and respectable Top 10 list without him in there as well.
A list without MJ loses credibility. A list without Magic loses credibility. A list without Kobe loses credibility. A list without Kareem loses credibility. Bill Russell. A list without Duncan does not.
The people coming in here claiming "Duncan got his fifth ring" are just nuthugging. Duncan played a solid role in getting a 5th ring, but Kawhi Leonard was clearly the team's MVP during this Finals series.
Last edited by Finn_Cool; 06-16-2014 at 02:50 PM..
Good he had one good game in last years Finals, is that supposed to prove a point today? Did I say Duncan wasn't capable of having a good game? Even Paul Pierce had a 22 point game in the playoffs. Old guys with talent can sometimes do well in a single game. And guess what? The Spurs still lost the series that year.
No, there is doubt and questions or else this thread wouldn't be 6 pages long. I actually don't have a problem with anyone who does put him in the Top 10, there are reasons for him being there without 2014 included but I can also see a valid and respectable Top 10 list without him in there as well.
A list without MJ loses credibility. A list without Magic loses credibility. A list without Kobe loses credibility. A list without Kareem loses credibility. Bill Russell. A list without Duncan does not.
The people coming in here claiming "Duncan got his fifth ring" are just nuthugging. Duncan played a solid role in getting a 5th ring, but Kawhi Leonard was clearly the team's MVP during this Finals series.
so are bosh or wade "role players?"
tim plays as big or bigger part of the spurs game as either of those guys.
wow dude your hate is just silly. a list without KOBE isnt credible? why not throw lebron in there? what about shaq?
Manu is good, I'm not going to trash him like other people might out of their nuthug love for South Beach, but in the NBA Manu's primary role has been as a great 6th man, except for that one season where he started pretty much every game in 2010 (I believe).
But in nearly every important NBA statistical category; points per game, steals, rebounds, FG%, Dwayne is simply better than Manu. PERs, 100 possessions? It's not even close. From 2004 to 2011, you could make a case for Dwayne Wade being a Top 5 player in the league every single season. Can you say the same for Manu?
Heck, the year that Wade lead his team to the finals and won the championship at 24 years old was some of the best basketball I've ever seen (and I was already an NBA fanatic during the Bird-Johnson rivalry years). Look at the numbers during that playoff year; 28.4 ppg, .497 FG%, 5.7 assist, 5.9 rebounds, 38% from beyond the arc! Those are straight up Michael Jordan type numbers. Manu has NEVER had a run like that in the regular or post season.
Anyway, I know there's a lot of Spurs love right now (and I for one am glad they got it this year), but the type of nuthugging that is coming out now from Spurs fans is kind of ridiculous.
wades career per 100 pos looks like this
35.3 ppg
8.7 apg
7.3 rpg
2.5 steals
5 turnovers
3.5 fouls
manus career per 100 pos
28.7 ppg
7.8 apg
7.5 rpg
2.8 steals
4.1 turnovers
4.3 fouls
those numbers are really not that far off, then considering manu wasnt asked to be the lone scoring option for his team.
now career per 36 minutes (remember manu doesnt play a ton of minutes because his coach knows the value of rest)
wade
23.9 ppg
5.9 apg
4.9 rpg
1.7 steals
3.4 to
2.4 fouls
manu
19.5 ppg
5.3 apg
5.1 rpg
1.9 steals
2.8 to
2.9 fouls
thats pretty close when you put their numbers on an apples to apples basis.
wades "accomplishments"
Quote:
3× NBA champion: 2006, 2012, 2013
NBA Finals MVP: 2006
NBA scoring champion: 2009 (30.2 ppg)
NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2010 (28 points, 6 assists, 11 rebounds, and 5 steals)
10× NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
8× All-NBA:
First Team: 2009, 2010
Second Team: 2005, 2006, 2011
Third Team: 2007, 2012, 2013
3× All-Defense:
Second Team: 2005, 2009, 2010
NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2004
NBA All-Star Skills Challenge champion: 2006, 2007
Gold medal with Team USA: 2008 Summer Olympic Games
Bronze medal with Team USA: 2004 Summer Olympic Games
Bronze medal with Team USA: 2006 FIBA World Championship
Miami Heat all-time leading scorer
Miami Heat all-time assists leader
2005 Best Breakthrough Athlete ESPY Award
2006 Best NBA Player ESPY Award
2006 Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year
2006 Sporting News Sportsman of the Year
Wade won the 2012-13 season-long NBA Community Assist Award[102]
international competition, 1 olympic gold and 1 olympic bronze. i fiba bronze.
manu
Quote:
Awards
Italian League MVP: 2001, 2002
Italian League All-Star: 1999, 2000, 2001
Euroleague Finals Most Valuable Player: 2001
FIBA Americas Championship Most Valuable Player: 2001
Italian Cup Most Valuable Player: 2002
All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Cup: 2002, 2006
Olimpia de Oro: 2003, 2004 (shared with Carlos Tevez)
NBA All-Star: 2005, 2011
50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors: 2008
NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award: 2008
Diamond Konex Award 2010, most important sportsman of the decade in Argentina
All-NBA Third Team: 2008, 2011
Titles
Italian League Championship: 2001
Italian Cup: 2001, 2002
Euroleague: 2001
Triple Crown: 2001
Americas Championship: 2001, 2011
NBA Championship: 2003, 2005, 2007, 2014
Summer Olympic Games gold medal: 2004
Summer Olympic Games bronze medal: 2008
FIBA Diamond Ball Tournament gold medal: 2008
international competition, 1 olympic gold, and 1 olympic bronze. (olympic mvp) fiba world cup silver, fiba americas championship 2 gold 1 silver, south american championship silver.
wades career per 100 pos looks like this
35.3 ppg
8.7 apg
7.3 rpg
2.5 steals
5 turnovers
3.5 fouls
manus career per 100 pos
28.7 ppg
7.8 apg
7.5 rpg
2.8 steals
4.1 turnovers
4.3 fouls
those numbers are really not that far off, then considering manu wasnt asked to be the lone scoring option for his team.
now career per 36 minutes (remember manu doesnt play a ton of minutes because his coach knows the value of rest)
wade
23.9 ppg
5.9 apg
4.9 rpg
1.7 steals
3.4 to
2.4 fouls
manu
19.5 ppg
5.3 apg
5.1 rpg
1.9 steals
2.8 to
2.9 fouls
thats pretty close when you put their numbers on an apples to apples basis.
wades "accomplishments"
international competition, 1 olympic gold and 1 olympic bronze. i fiba bronze.
manu
international competition, 1 olympic gold, and 1 olympic bronze. (olympic mvp) fiba world cup silver, fiba americas championship 2 gold 1 silver, south american championship silver.
Per 100 possessions Wade is clearly better. Are you blind? I notice you left out FG% as well (where Wade kicks Manu's ass, .478% vs .452%). Most importantly, for his career Manu only averages 27.1 minutes per game. That's indicative of his role in the NBA, a career bench guy. Wade on the other hand even with his reduced minutes the past 2 years is a career 36.6 minutes per game guy, nearly a full quarter more than Manu.
Manu was never asked to be a lone scoring option because he's not that type of player. He's a career sixth man , and always has been except for one single season in his entire NBA career. If he could lead a team to a championship like Wade, then he would be asked to play that role. But he was never ever that caliber of player. Only Spurs nuthuggers would even make this comparison. Wade for a long part of his career was a clear franchise player. Manu was never ever in that discussion.
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