Cheap Property on the BI? (Hilo, Pahoa: neighborhood, to buy, camper)

[KaraBenNemsi]

"sustainable" is a contemporary catch phrase encompassing plenty of meanings these days. I would call any farm balancing income and expenses 'sustainable' in an economic sense. Otherwise it's a money losing hobby. In terms of the long lasting impact on the environment a farm has, the definitions are very broad as well. I dare to say that any human settlement pushes some parts of nature out of place to various degrees. On one side of the spectrum there are the small organic farmers, and on the other the GMO/pesticide 20,000+ acres mono crop areas in in the midwest.

What '100% sustainable' means for many though is that all food being consumed is being grown on the farm by the owner with minimal long lasting chemical applications. Meaning 'sustaining the farmers' nutrition on an ongoing base. With extra production being bartered or sold on farmers markets.

To the poster my questions would be: Do you want to be able to sell and make a living with your farm crops as well? Then you have to look into specialty and added value crops--commodities won't work. Economic calculations have to be done and a business plan is needed to be set up first. Do you have experience in farming? Marketing? Accounting? All would be help much to create a profitable farm business. There are plenty of low interest loans available for beginning farmers, but you need a plan.

Location would be only one concern depending on what crop you plan to grow and how to bring it to market. The availability of good ag labor would be another one. You can't do all of it yourself and make enough money to pay off equipment, health care, insurances and all that.

Keep in mind that these 'cheap' plots in HOVE or Puna became traps for many folks with vague ideas. The Honolulu paper wrote an interesting feature about the Big Islands 'Growing Pains'

[Tropical Daydreamer]

Wow you guys!! Awesome advice!! Thank you so much. Very interesting about the trees and soil. Now I so get what you mean about 100% sustainability Hotzcatz haha!...and I see the same point being made by Dreaming of Hawaii. I guess I didn't use the term properly cuz what I'm talking about is just living off your own property and maybe selling some of the extra fruits n veggies to pay for those things like cell service, etc? Not sure what that's called lol. I'm gonna check into that WOOFing thing for sure. Sounds like a great way to learn the skills needed and many of those folks could probably help guide me, like you guys are, towards where to buy property for optimal growing and livability.

[Tropical Daydreamer]

KaraBenNemsi, I just saw your post. Again, awesome advice, thank you! You described perfectly the version of '100% sustainable' that was talking about haha. I'm with ya on a plan and yes I would want to sell and make a very basic living with the farm crops. I actually do have experience in marketing, accounting and farming as well as small business ownership. I'll go check out that article in the Advertiser, mahalo!

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by Tropical Daydreamer

Open D...I'm not a new poster, but thanx.

My point is the same, either way. Use the archives... most of your questions have been asked and answered before.

Originally Posted by Tropical Daydreamer

I guess I didn't use the term properly cuz what I'm talking about is just living off your own property and maybe selling some of the extra fruits n veggies to pay for those things like cell service, etc? Not sure what that's called lol.

It's called subsistence farming, and in third world countries where there is little infrastructure and few manufactured goods to buy it may be the only way for poor people to live.

But it's a tough, tough way to live, for millions of people a never ending grind, with many potential pitfalls, like droughts and crop failures. And in a "first world" country like the US it's a romantic notion that bears little resemblance to reality.

In addition to your cell phone you'll need to pay property tax, and probably vehicle insurance and registration, and gasoline is expensive, and you'll never be able to grow everything you really want. So what will you do?

I think it is a terrific goal to raise some of your own food and to be committed to maintaining a small, sustainable footprint on the planet, but you're likely going to need a job to support all that... at least for the first few years, until those fruit trees start producing and you learn enough about gardening IN HAWAI'I to put a reasonable amount of food on the table.

[hotzcatz]

Well, there's a middle ground between working a 40 hour workweek type lifestyle and subsistence farming. I know folks who make a living from selling things at farmer's markets. They are living in a "normal" house and are on the grid yet have off-grid attitudes about growing gardens, canning surplus food, selling surplus and making items for farmer's markets and trading whenever possible. They work hard, true, but they are pretty happy about it.

I know other folks living off in the jungle kinda scrabbling for a living, I have no idea what they are gonna do when the required health care becomes instituted. They have almost no cash and no employment. The stay fed and some of them do better than others. There is a family that is thriving off grid, they have a true farm with cows and such. We buy our beef from them.

Actually, if you just want to provide sustenance for one or two people, you don't really need a farm. We have a small town sized lot and have loads of production from our yard. We also can walk to the library, the grocery, the post office, the theater, the dentist, the emergency room, the little main street area, lots of restaurants, etc. Not having to have transportation to get places saves tons on gasoline costs as well as transportation time. It is surprisingly more sustainable to live in town than it was to live out on a larger property further away from everything. More folks drop by to visit, when we want something from the store, it's four minutes away if we ride the bicycle. About the same amount of time as driving. If we were to walk, it takes about a half hour so we usually bike or drive, but we could walk if we wanted to.

There are solar electric and hot water solar panels on the roof so the utility bills are minimal. The lot is small, but it's flat and has good soil. There are fruit trees as well as vegetable gardens. We eat a lot of vegetables and fruits from the yard. There are three hens who give us eggs as well as rabbits who give us manure to fertilize the garden. They are fiber bunnies who give us fiber to make angora yarn. That usually gets knit into shawls or scarves. It's very warm. We also have cotton growing in the front yard so pretty soon we hope to have cotton to spin, that should be interesting. I don't think we are going to replace our wardrobe with hand spun cotton, but it should be fun to play with. We do have hand spun wool rugs which are really durable and the wool is from sheep who live about four miles away.

So it's not necessary to have a farm to be sustainable. Keep the overhead low and things will be a lot easier.

[oregonwoodsmoke]

OP, I think you mean homesteading using the current meaning of homesteading. The trick is that it takes funds to get set up: buy the land, buy the equipment, buy the solar panels, pay for all the expensive fencing, buy the plants and animals, pay to put up the barns and something to shelter the people.

Once it is all setup, if you hit the niche market just right, you can grow a lot of food for your family and make a little bit of money. But not many people can make enough money to completely do without a job or some source of outside money.

Most of my farmer friends have the wife working the farm and the husband goes out to town and works for a paycheck and for the health insurance.

For small farms, it is vaguely possible to support your family, but the number of families I know, all over the USA, that are doing it, I can count on one hand. They are very clever people, brilliant at marketing, and have discovered a high paying niche market.

The huge farms and ranches produce a living, but I suspect that very few people could purchase that much land in Hawaii to have that economies of scale.

[Tropical Daydreamer]

Wow Hotz! I'm in awe! So much great info in that post! I'm gonna read it again n again. Your place and situation sounds like perfection in my mind. I love your idea of living within walking distance to town. Mahalo for taking the time to school me haha.

Oregonwoodsmoke, thanx as well. I will be by myself actually and have a small nest egg to invest in buying property, equip, etc. but it will have to be camping to begin with (Rain proof, water catchment kinda camping haha). Great advice about the niche market!

What I'm really struggling with right now is what area to look for property on the big island. It has to be cheap like 10-15k, have good soil/growing conditions but preferably better weather than Hilo ya? Pahoa sounds nice as does Na'alehu (but I don't know if Na'alehu is affordable for me)

[McFrostyJ]

Originally Posted by Tropical Daydreamer

What I'm really struggling with right now is what area to look for property on the big island. It has to be cheap like 10-15k, have good soil/growing conditions but preferably better weather than Hilo ya? Pahoa sounds nice as does Na'alehu (but I don't know if Na'alehu is affordable for me)

From what I can see Na'alehu is out of your price range, especially if you want to be within walking distance to town.
(I had to make a change. I was thought you said Pahala.)

However, IF you could bump your budget up a bit, this place looks really nice!
96-3090 Meyer Rd Pahala, HI 96777 - MLS 265247

[hotzcatz]

I dunno McFJ, that property is assessed at less than half a mil and they're asking 5.5 mill for it. Seems a tad overpriced at a quick glance. You can't farm to cover that sort of mortgage.

A small plot somewhere up in Kohala - Hawi - Kapaau might be nice. Much less crime up in that area, too. Pahoa is less expensive, but you're gonna get ripped off a couple of times, pretty much guaranteed. Especially the newbies, those always seem to get targeted by thieves. North (Waimea side) of Hilo would be good, but prices are gonna be higher.

Actually, if you want to farm, you could rent or buy a house near Pauuilo and then lease farm land from the Farmer's Co-op. Then you don't have to put up a whole lot of money for farmland and the Pauuilo farm lots have soil. Much less crime around the Pauuilo area. Nice sunny weather, great ocean views, deep soil, etc.

[McFrostyJ]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

I dunno McFJ, that property is assessed at less than half a mil and they're asking 5.5 mill for it. Seems a tad overpriced at a quick glance. You can't farm to cover that sort of mortgage.

I know, that's why I put the winky face.