Is Jamaica plain safe, affordable and and pleasant to live in? (Boston: middle-class, transplants)

[artwomyn]

I was wondering what kind of neigborhood Jamaica Plain is. Is it safe, affordable, easy to get around in, and does it have much in the way of amenities? By amenities, I mean decent restaurants, a library, farmers markets, organic food stores, colleges, events and festivals, etc. Can you get to other parts of Boston via the transit system, from Jamaica Plain? And what are the draw-backs, if any, about living in Jamaica Plain?

[goyguy]

JP is a mosaic of smaller neighborhoods. Its main thoroughfare, Centre St, enters from the east only to veer south at Hyde Square and then west at the monument (to WWI soldiers.) The other "anchor" streets are South Huntington Ave (running north from where Centre turns east), South St (running, ahem, south from the monument) and Washington St (along the eastern flank.) No one thinks of JP locations in terms of its main streets, though. Boston's "emerald necklace" of parks (Jamaica Pond and the Arnold Arboretum) make up the western boundary, and east of Washington St is where Franklin Park sprawls. Real estate code for the area west of Centre St's north-south stretch is "Pondside." "Forest Hills" connotes the section surrounding the rapid-transit terminal station of the same name. Bournedale lies beyond Forest Hills. Jackson and Hyde are the names of the two principal squares, but most listings don't mention them. You'll mainly see only "Jamaica Plain" - perhaps "Pondside," "Bournedale," "Arboretum," or "Forest Hills" in addition - when perusing properties on the market.
Moss Hill is easily the most affluent area of JP, and the one with the least listings (and probably zero rentals) with Bournedale coming in second. The sections loosely labeled Pondside (no one says they live in "Pondside") and the ones closest to the Arboretum follow. Forest Hills, Hyde Square, etc are next, and the neighborhood near Jackson Square comes in last. (It's there that the vast Bromley-Heath "housing development" has, shall we say, detracted from the quality of life for 60 years or so.)
During the late '80s, the MBTA's elevated Orange Line was torn down. The train service was diverted nearby to what had been intended as the path for a section of I-95 which was never built. The route runs below ground level, but not through a tunnel. Flanking it for its entirety is the so-called Southwest Corridor Park (despite its being barely wide enough for its bike path in some spots.) Hopes were high for Washington St to rebound after the el tracks were removed, but this hasn't happened appreciably much. That particular area still has gang problems (which, paradoxically, have next to no effect on some streets immediately nearby.) Gentrification has been only spotty - IMHO that's not necessarily a bad thing. The perennially popular bars Midway Café and Doyle's are more toward the Forest Hills end, and other than that there's little to speak of along that corridor in terms of amenities.
The real turnaround in JP has been around Forest Hills and Hyde Square. Neighborhood deterioration in those parts has been totally reversed and then some. Seemingly countless two-families and "three-deckas" have undergone spiffing up and condo conversion. (The big, once dilapidated, home of friends who lived near the relocated Orange Line sold for about $600k when the wife's mom's health declined and they decided to sell the place to help with expenses. I think 2003 was the year during which they left. Today, the second-third floor unit of the condo-ized house is listed at nearly the same price.) Centre St, Bournedale, and the "Pondside" locales needed no turnaround.
Through all of the transitions, JP's hub of entertainment and shopping has always been Centre St - from the bodegas and restaurants along the Jackson Sq - Hyde Sq stretch to the taverns and convenience stores near the monument. What's changed is the nature of some of these businesses. Yuppification has brought an Indian bistro, sushi place, and antique shops to a strip that once held Irish pubs and independent drug stores. But the tensions wrought in many other locations by socioeconomic shifts haven't shown themselves in JP. For whatever reasons, it's always been one of the more socially tolerant communities in the city. I first arrived in Boston when the uproar over crosstown school busing had quieted only to a dull roar. Yet the block I lived on was a diverse, White-minority (~40%) place with no problems. One never heard about racial incidents in JP even as Hyde Park, South Boston, etc were experiencing ugly stuff daily. The only thing different about JP now as opposed to then is that its quietly assimilated lesbian/gay population has gotten a lot more visible. Walk down Centre St near the post office on any given Saturday afternoon, and the pairs of women strolling hand-in-hand or pushing a baby carriage are "everywhere." If Northampton is the lesbian Mecca of western New England, JP definitely holds the Eastern New England title. Their male counterparts are also much in evidence, though as a rule not nearly as inclined towards parenthood. All of this is greeted with indifference by the other citizens, many of whom are transplants from elsewhere and progressively inclined politically.
One of Boston's Harvest Co-op markets is on South St near the monument. There's a Stop & Shop supermarket (regional chain) on Centre St headed towards Jackson Square, but other than those two places one has to drive to do major food shopping. (During the warmer months there's a farmer's market in a church parking lot right off Centre St.) Retailers of clothing, furniture, and so on also tend to be more trendy/cutesy than practical. Such is life in a "hot" urban neighborhood.
Crime is definitely part of urban life as well. JP was rattled during November when three people sitting inside a "neighborhood institution" of a sub shop were shot in broad daylight. ("That just doesn't happen around here.") More disconcerting have been some arson attacks on businesses that have occurred for seemingly no reason. And the gangs spawned by the "projects" persist in dealing drugs and trying to kill each others' members around Washington St. Break-in's, though, are somewhat rare as long as people on a block know one another and stay vigilant. Personally, I've never felt unsafe in JP - not exactly - but by the same token I use the Orange Line reluctantly at night and don't tarry when walking to and from Centre St.
Oddly, most of the public transit in Jamaica Plain is oriented toward downtown. There are also good bus connections from Forest Hills to Roslindale, Dedham, etc. But getting to Brookline or any other neighborhood involves at least one transfer.

[missionhill]

Gee--goyguy is, as usual, comprehensive and definitive. Jamaica Plain is a great neighborhood, not unlike the West End of Hartford (which u were looking into I think?) only better. For anyone interested, there's a thoughtful, feelgood book-length essay all about the neighborhood written 10 or so years ago by a woman who had moved to J.P. from Back Bay. A Home in the Heart of the City, I think it is. Then there's the really good urban social history Local Attachments by a Harvard professor which takes J.P. as a case study for his thesis that urban communities years ago had a huge web of clubs and societies and other forms of public life that have largely faded from the scene today. Whether one agrees or not it's an interesting study.

[artwomyn]

Originally Posted by missionhill

Gee--goyguy is, as usual, comprehensive and definitive. Jamaica Plain is a great neighborhood, not unlike the West End of Hartford (which u were looking into I think?) only better. For anyone interested, there's a thoughtful, feelgood book-length essay all about the neighborhood written 10 or so years ago by a woman who had moved to J.P. from Back Bay. A Home in the Heart of the City, I think it is. Then there's the really good urban social history Local Attachments by a Harvard professor which takes J.P. as a case study for his thesis that urban communities years ago had a huge web of clubs and societies and other forms of public life that have largely faded from the scene today. Whether one agrees or not it's an interesting study.

So overall, how would you rate JP today? Is it livable regardng decent, affordable housing? Is crime out of control? Are murders common, or was the Sub shop shooting just a fluke? What kind of money would a single person need to make, to be considered middle-class in JP? What is the arts and entertainment scene like there? You don't have to give me a novel like goyboy, just a basic explanation.

[goyguy]

JP has started to get out of reach of the "middle class," but an income of $40k/year or so should suffice. "The new JP" is Roslindale to the south, formerly inhabited strictly by Irish and Greek folks but now diversifying a great deal.
One of the oldest theater companies in New England (Footlights) is based in JP and puts on productions in an amphitheater near Jamaica Pond during the summer. There aren't any major music venues there, but a lot of the neighborhood pubs have DJ's or live music as well as theme nights. "Read all about it" at Jamaica Plain.
Relative to its being a city neighborhood, JP is a safe place. Outside of the public-housing areas there isn't much street crime. East/south of Centre St or close to Forest Hills are sketchier sections than the rest of the community, but no one with their street smarts at the ready should run into any hassles.

[artwomyn]

Originally Posted by goyguy

JP has started to get out of reach of the "middle class," but an income of $40k/year or so should suffice. "The new JP" is Roslindale to the south, formerly inhabited strictly by Irish and Greek folks but now diversifying a great deal.
One of the oldest theater companies in New England (Footlights) is based in JP and puts on productions in an amphitheater near Jamaica Pond during the summer. There aren't any major music venues there, but a lot of the neighborhood pubs have DJ's or live music as well as theme nights. "Read all about it" at Jamaica Plain.
Relative to its being a city neighborhood, JP is a safe place. Outside of the public-housing areas there isn't much street crime. East/south of Centre St or close to Forest Hills are sketchier sections than the rest of the community, but no one with their street smarts at the ready should run into any hassles.

So you're saying that Rosindale is cheaper than JP. Is it also safer than JP, and does it have the same amenities, as JP (good public transit, plenty of restaurants, farmers markets, libraries, jobs, ect.)?

[missionhill]

It's cheaper than JP because it's not as good-- not as colorful, not as much of a scene, not as hip, more bland, not nearly as good transportation (it's beyond reach of the orange line which serves JP, and JP has the very frequent 57 bus that replaced the Arborway streetcar line.) It borders the AA at one end, which is nice, but has no great public space where everyone comes to hang out to compare with Jamaica Pond.

[aries63]

Yes there is a public library branch in JP but when I lived there I never went, I always went to the main library in Copley Square.

JP was the nicest place I lived in during my Boston years (compared to Allston, South End, and Somerville). The best things about JP IMO were sailing on the Pond in summer, biking or walking around Arnold Arboretum, Doyle's Cafe, JP Licks ice cream shop, the Coop, and easy access to downtown via Orange Line. I also made good use of the bike path along the Orange Line. The bad was that there were a lot of thefts, burglaries, even a few home invasions. Had a car stolen on Christmas Eve, spent much of Christmas day dealing with police.

[lz1982]

Originally Posted by artwomyn

So you're saying that Rosindale is cheaper than JP. Is it also safer than JP, and does it have the same amenities, as JP (good public transit, plenty of restaurants, farmers markets, libraries, jobs, ect.)?

I believe Roslindale is safer, on the whole, especially north and west of Washington St. It does have restaurants, farmers markets, and a library, but as missionhill says, it's not on the subway. But it does have a commuter rail Monday to Saturday, and numerous buses to the Orange Line.

[artwomyn]

Originally Posted by lz1982

I believe Roslindale is safer, on the whole, especially north and west of Washington St. It does have restaurants, farmers markets, and a library, but as missionhill says, it's not on the subway. But it does have a commuter rail Monday to Saturday, and numerous buses to the Orange Line.

Does the commuter rail in Roslindale, go into Boston, and/or other suburbs? And is Roslindale very ethnically diverse? Are the safest areas of Roslindale, also the most costly, with regards to housing? Also, is Roslindale as accepting of those in the gay and lesbian community, as JP is supposed to be?