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I'm black, mid-30s and have been to Boston a couple of times on business and once to catch up with some friends. Not a ton of experience. But I do have quite a few friends who are from Boston originally and a couple that still live there.
My perspective on this topic is that Boston really is seen by a lot of younger black folks as racist, especially for a Northern city and I think that's based primarily on three things:
1) the culture as a whole and how it compares to Southern culture and the other Northeastern cities - Most black people in America live in the South or in the other big Northeastern metros, and those places tend to have more inherent black culture than Boston does primarily due to historical reasons. That's not a bad thing against Boston in and of itself, but I think it does influence the perception of the city to some extent. Throw in that the people in general are not outwardly friendly with the small black population and there's just a perception that the area is not friendly to blacks.
2) history and parents/grandparents experience - This also plays into it imo. The perception of Boston as racist isn't new by any means and all kinds of folks have had bad experiences there over the years.
3) public figures experience, especially athletes - This has been a big thing for a long time with athletes expressing how they were called racial slurs at venues in Boston and often nowhere else, particularly at Fenway and to a slightly lesser extent Boston Garden. Those types of incidents take a long time to be forgotten, especially when a franchise like the Red Sox has to come out and publicly make statements condemning racism by their own fans.
When you start adding it all up, I think newcomers to Boston likely are wary of racism, regardless of what the reality is. I've never had a bad experience there in my limited time. People have tended to be cordial if not outwardly friendly and that's fine by me. It didn't seem more segregated than an average large American city (though it is definitely worse than some), there just weren't that many black people there. I have friends who still live in Boston and insist its no worse than anywhere else in America racism-wise. I have friends who have moved out of Boston and insist its the worst city in America in terms of racism.
But to answer the OP question of whether its "cool" to call Boston racist? I mean, is racism ever cool? I don't think that anyone who considers Boston to be racist (except maybe some of the sports fans from NYC) wishes that were the case or the perception. My opinion is that its probably not much more racist than anywhere else, but the racists are louder (like everyone else there) and prouder about their racism than a lot of other places and it gets more attention. I'm sure there's plenty of quiet racists hitting up your average *for example* Tigers game.
I don't mind going to Boston and I generally enjoyed my time there. I think the city itself is really unique and actually a pretty cool city - definitely unconventional by American standards. With that being said, its certainly not my favorite place to visit, for reasons completely unrelated to racism. I certainly would not want to live there.
This isn't the question at hand. It's not "is Bosotn the most racist" it's is it cool to say it is.
And no there's "facts" and metrics you could use to make Boston (or other cities) appear more racist. Its not completely unsupported. You coming in hot like this gives zero credibility to to your argument. No one will take you seriously if you don't tone that down a bit, speaking from experience and seeing some white people (from Boston) come in hot like this.
You misinterpreted "This is completely and utterly unsupported by fact..".
That was meant to be pre-requisite to the following statement I made... Like, "the below isn't fact, but here's how I see it.."
I'm not saying Boston isn't racist, or doesn't have racists. Not at all. But I do think it has a bigger target on it's back... Whether it's cool to hate, or it's founded in legitimate reason I'm not really sure. All I was trying to say was, as compared to it's peers, I'm not sure I've noticed a difference.
On C-D .... it is just cool to some to just make Boston the topic and debate between locals and those who are from there and boost for their city as a transplant, those who call it home and moved away or from there for life. Many have Boston in their ID for a reason. Simple as that.
Is it hate or even envy.... of course not. Every city has their positives and negatives. Just some have more to Boast for it and then sometimes there is a hit back of sorts when threads seem to be on just Boston for multiple segments of 10 post. Some cities just have MORE BOOSTERS ON C-D that will defend a city and some cities much less or their cities are rarely even listed.
Everyone though has every right to speak-up for their favorite city. Just for Boston.... conversations go back and forth by the same people boasting for Boston. Like a debate better suited for the Boston forum. Not fighting against it in the city vs city forum and cool to diss it.
If people go after Boston for sports etc.... that is that topic. Why think it is the whole city that they are hating on???? You just defend civilly.
Of course it's cool. It's just the way the world works now. People see stuff on social media, all over the internet and make snap judgements. It will die down eventually but that stigma is still there.
Ever since I think it was Jones on the Orioles with the incident in centerfield at Fenway then it became a huge deal. So now everyone has a voice (any device with internet connection) and just thrives on these broad, sweeping labels.
Meanwhile, racism in sports has been around in Northern cities like Boston, Philly, NYC, Cleveland for decades well before this whole thing started heating up a few years back. So now people will tag Boston will this moniker right or wrong. With the new world we live in and how progressive things are in places like Boston this will simmer down, may take a few more years though to remove the stigma.
On C-D .... it is just cool to some to just make Boston the topic and debate between locals and those who are from there and boost for their city as a transplant, those who call it home and moved away or from there for life. Many have Boston in their ID for a reason. Simple as that.
Is it hate or even envy.... of course not. Every city has their positives and negatives. Just some have more to Boast for it and then sometimes there is a hit back of sorts when threads seem to be on just Boston for multiple segments of 10 post. Some cities just have MORE BOOSTERS ON C-D that will defend a city and some cities much less or their cities are rarely even listed.
Everyone though has every right to speak-up for their favorite city. Just for Boston.... conversations go back and forth by the same people boasting for Boston. Like a debate better suited for the Boston forum. Not fighting against it in the city vs city forum and cool to diss it.
If people go after Boston for sports etc.... that is that topic. Why think it is the whole city that they are hating on???? You just defend civilly.
Don't you think that kind of crazy though? Imagine if you thought NYC was still NYC of 1985. Why is the common, logical, understanding that cities everywhere have changed DRAMATICALLY since 1980 lost on Boston? The city is a living breathing evolving ting not some museum of racism stuck in a timewarp.
So my question is what is the outside force that keeps it that way. Much of that I put on national media. It seems that just off what I see online in comment sections or twitter or youtube. A negative video about Boston racial history will et 3 Million views. A video about the black community rebuilding dudey street by hand or MLK/Malcolm X's life in Boston get 94 views-maybe.
I actually don't think it's crazy because I never learned much to the contrary. I've only been to Boston to fly in and out of the airport and that was 25 years ago. I never heard about any of the stuff that was in the video. The only black history that I know about Boston was from the Malcolm X movie and the New Edition movie. Boston is so far off my radar. I don't criticize it so much as it never comes up.
I'm black, mid-30s and have been to Boston a couple of times on business and once to catch up with some friends. Not a ton of experience. But I do have quite a few friends who are from Boston originally and a couple that still live there.
My perspective on this topic is that Boston really is seen by a lot of younger black folks as racist, especially for a Northern city and I think that's based primarily on three things:
1) the culture as a whole and how it compares to Southern culture and the other Northeastern cities - Most black people in America live in the South or in the other big Northeastern metros, and those places tend to have more inherent black culture than Boston does primarily due to historical reasons. That's not a bad thing against Boston in and of itself, but I think it does influence the perception of the city to some extent. Throw in that the people in general are not outwardly friendly with the small black population and there's just a perception that the area is not friendly to blacks.
2) history and parents/grandparents experience - This also plays into it imo. The perception of Boston as racist isn't new by any means and all kinds of folks have had bad experiences there over the years.
3) public figures experience, especially athletes - This has been a big thing for a long time with athletes expressing how they were called racial slurs at venues in Boston and often nowhere else, particularly at Fenway and to a slightly lesser extent Boston Garden. Those types of incidents take a long time to be forgotten, especially when a franchise like the Red Sox has to come out and publicly make statements condemning racism by their own fans.
When you start adding it all up, I think newcomers to Boston likely are wary of racism, regardless of what the reality is. I've never had a bad experience there in my limited time. People have tended to be cordial if not outwardly friendly and that's fine by me. It didn't seem more segregated than an average large American city (though it is definitely worse than some), there just weren't that many black people there. I have friends who still live in Boston and insist its no worse than anywhere else in America racism-wise. I have friends who have moved out of Boston and insist its the worst city in America in terms of racism.
But to answer the OP question of whether its "cool" to call Boston racist? I mean, is racism ever cool? I don't think that anyone who considers Boston to be racist (except maybe some of the sports fans from NYC) wishes that were the case or the perception. My opinion is that its probably not much more racist than anywhere else, but the racists are louder (like everyone else there) and prouder about their racism than a lot of other places and it gets more attention. I'm sure there's plenty of quiet racists hitting up your average *for example* Tigers game.
I don't mind going to Boston and I generally enjoyed my time there. I think the city itself is really unique and actually a pretty cool city - definitely unconventional by American standards. With that being said, its certainly not my favorite place to visit, for reasons completely unrelated to racism. I certainly would not want to live there.
I think this is a pretty solid response. I wouldn't say there aren't many black people there (160-170k in 48 square miles) 350k+ in the area-unless you compare it to the South or other large NE cities though. Is the expectation black people should be more numerous because it an east coast city. It's still top 20 in raw black numbers. and one of the blacker major cities as a percentage. You can o to many places in Boston or even some suburbs and be around nothing BUT black people-for some that's part of the issue really.
I also would say to the bolded. It's funny that this is what focused on because there are also many players who lveo the city and have mostly if not nothing but positives to say about it.
Marcus Smart said he loved Boston (but he also mentioned he was the subject of racial slurs). Kevin Garnett Pierce and James Posey have said the same.
Jaylen Brown - arguably the wokest player in the NBA- says "he's a Bosotnoian now." He also called it a diverse and eclectic city. One thing Jaylen does though is he spends time not just in black areas, but also socializing in the nightclubs and hiking the hiking trails in blacker parts of the metro (Blue Hills). The Celtics players are invested enough in this city that they wrote this op-ed to the governor in the BostonGlobe.: C's players pen letter to Baker about important racial justice issue
ut both players said that as black players, what they saw outside of Boston in that era was just as bad as anything they saw inside the city, if not worse.
"There isn't a city is in America that during those times, and even now, that you can't find racial situations currently," Sanders, an NBA Hall of Fame forward, said Saturday in a panel discussion titled "Being a Black Celtic" during the National Association of Black Journalists' convention in Boston this week.
"Los Angeles was my worst experience," Sanders added. "Cops pulling guns on us [as we were] walking on the street [or] driving the car. People talk about Boston, [but] you've got to be kidding me. LA was the worst place I've ever been in during those particular times."
Sanders, who played for the Celtics from 1960-73, said it's often lost in the discussion that the Celtics were the first NBA team to draft an African-American player (Chuck Cooper in 1950); were the first NBA team to have an all-black starting lineup, and were the first team to have a black head coach (Bill Russell).
"From my perspective, there was an awful lot of ignorance out there, and unfortunately, I'm talking about my family members, friends, neighbors — people who obviously could not see and clearly did not believe what they read," Sanders said.
"I spent all these years talking to these people about when I was in Boston, [and] on that particular team, in that particular organization, we had at a minimum of four black players when the rest of the league had maybe one on each team, maybe two.
“The narrative of Boston before you get there is that it is a racist town,” said Kevin Garnett, who led the Celtics to a championship in 2008 and the team recently announced will have his No. 5 Celtics jersey retired next season.
“But once you became a Celtic, it was a whole other protective,” Garnett added. “It was another shield. … It was a whole other flip.”
For many black Celtics, they found a home in Boston.
[Robert] Parish, who played 14 seasons in Boston from 1980 to 1994, also embraced the city. The Louisiana native said the only thing that bothered him about Boston was the cold and the snow.
“Outside the weather, Boston was a great place to live and play,” he said. “There was never any racism thrown my way. That is not to say it is not here. It was just never directed to me. I’m speaking of how Boston treated me. I wouldn’t say the [perception] is wrong. Obviously, there is racism here. I just don’t think it’s blatant and out in the open. "
But on this Sunday afternoon in 2018, a predominantly white crowd waited for more than an hour to honor an old friend: Paul Pierce, whose No. 34 jersey would be raised to the TD Garden rafters alongside other former Celtics greats.
“There was no other place where they could have done that after the game and the fans would have waited,” Rivers said. “They got blown out and not one person left. It was still a sold-out arena for Paul. … Boston has grown in so many ways.”
Deborah White says her family views the Celtics and Boston as family because of the way they treated her husband as he fought through illnesses. Jo Jo White had surgery in May 2010 to remove a benign, walnut-sized tumor on the back of his left brain. Deborah White said the Celtics set up her husband with the best doctors and once he recovered, he returned to his job as director of special projects for the Celtics. He died in 2016 at the age of 71.
“As far as the Celtics, you couldn’t ask for more,” she said. “I’m a witness of this. I watched it happen and I’ve seen it over the years as I’ve been so close to all the players and their wives that have come through and know that Boston is not what people perceive it to be from the exterior.”
“The first thing I heard when I got drafted here was Boston was historically racist,” fourth-year guard Jaylen Brown said. “But you see certain things outside of the city and within the city of Boston that is very diverse and very eclectic. It’s fast-paced. It is probably a lot different than it used to be known for. You see a lot of changes, a lot of different things where people come together. … This city has really grown on me.”
“You get it all, especially in Boston,” former Celtic Kyrie Irving said. “It’s really a major city.”
Celtics players of recent years have also been venturing out to find restaurants familiar to them.
Horford found his native Dominican food in Boston. Bradley said he and his wife, who is from Trinidad and Tobago, would go to Dorchester to get Caribbean food. And Tatum continues to frequent a familiar soul food spot.
“When I first got there, I asked my [Celtics] assistant coach Jerome Allen, who is from Philly, where can I go to get some soul food, some fried chicken or something,” Tatum said. “Slade’s was the first place that he recommended. That is my go-to place.”
Tatum, too, had heard about Boston’s reputation upon being drafted by the Celtics in 2017 but says he has never had any problems.
Pierce notes that many of today’s players have gotten to know Boston more now that the Celtics’ practice facility moved to the new 70,000-square-foot Auerbach Center in June 2018. It is located at Boston Landing at the New Balance World Headquarters, which can be seen from the Massachusetts Turnpike.
“Everything is within a 10-minute radius,” Pierce said. “A lot of players have condos out there now. That is good. Players can gravitate toward [Boston] and will be embraced by the fans when they are out and about.”
“Boston is an amazing place,” Cash added. “I go to South Boston now and think back to 40 years ago, it’s the kind of thing that just causes you to know there are more people out there trying to do the right thing than the people we have to hear and see highlighted that are jerks.”
Whether the city will ever be able to shake its reputation is unknown, but many black Celtics, past and present, would recommend Boston as a free-agent destination.
“It is one of the best franchises I’ve ever played for and I loved the city,” said Bradley, who currently plays for the Los Angeles Lakers. “I would still live there. It’s home for me.”
So my thing is why don't these quotes resonate. Do they resonate but the fact that there also incidents of racism outweigh that?
As someone who grew up in awe of Jordan, I related a lot of things with my dad through the NBA. He was a Wilt guy, which meant I had to figure out what the big deal was. Among other things, that meant learning all about Bill Russell. Before this, I can’t say I knew much about Boston besides what I gleaned from watching Cheers and what I had read in history books. But after reading about Russell, it added layers of complexity. Here was perhaps the greatest player of his era on what was perhaps the greatest sporting dynasty ever, who seemed to hate playing in his home town. It’s funny what things stick with you and what doesn’t. But Russell definitely affected my opinion on the matter. Probably doubly so because elementary school me didn’t expect Boston of all places to be racist.
I actually don't think it's crazy because I never learned much to the contrary. I've only been to Boston to fly in and out of the airport and that was 25 years ago. I never heard about any of the stuff that was in the video. The only black history that I know about Boston was from the Malcolm X movie and the New Edition movie. Boston is so far off my radar. I don't criticize it so much as it never comes up.
I have more to say but no time right now.
This is part of the problem. More artist than New Edition have come out of Boston and more cultural contributors than simply Malcolm X. And I'm talking about the present day. Black people who are making large impact nationally who are from Boston-today.
If Malcolm X and New Edition are from there I might would think people would explore a bit further. But life is complex and vast-that people who arent burdened with the question of racially equality in Boston don't focus on it at all-that makes 100% sense.
As someone who grew up in awe of Jordan, I related a lot of things with my dad through the NBA. He was a Wilt guy, which meant I had to figure out what the big deal was. Among other things, that meant learning all about Bill Russell. Before this, I can’t say I knew much about Boston besides what I gleaned from watching Cheers and what I had read in history books. But after reading about Russell, it added layers of complexity. Here was perhaps the greatest player of his era on what was perhaps the greatest sporting dynasty ever, who seemed to hate playing in his home town. It’s funny what things stick with you and what doesn’t. But Russell definitely colored my opinion on the matter.
Funnily enough, Bill Russel opened a nightclub in a black area of Boston that stands till this day-Jayson Tatum and other Celtics go there.
When Bill Russel's house was defaced and vandalized-he was actually in town in Reading MA at a celebration the town had organized specifically in his honor. That's how the assailant knew he wouldnt be home.
But also that was 1964 how in the world is Boston the only city with heinous racially motivated acts in 1964? We know its not but why does that stick like that.
DOC RIVERS' HOME WAS BURNT TO THE GROUND IN TEXAS BY SKINHEADS IN 1997 and we never hear a word. But Boston can't live it down? That's the type of stuff I'm talking about.
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