Hmmmm.why hasn't Boston faced the awful "doom loop" San Francisco has post pandemic? (Cambridge: for rent, crime)

[bostonguy1960]

(sorry about the typos in the title...argghh!...I simply don't know how to edit the title once submitted.)
.........
Long post:

I keep reading how awful conditions are in downtown San Francisco the past few years after the start of Covid.

Mostly empty office towers, seemingly more empty retail and restaurants space than other cities, obviously the homeless and mentally ill with their tents dotting parts of downtown, their public defecation and drug use, robberies, car breakins, walking out of stores without paying. etc.

It's been called the "doom loop" and even the Boston Globe had a story this week about it and whether it could happen to Boston or New York to the extent it's happening in San Francisco.

Sure. many tech bros left the city or state, thus rents have decreased -- but it's still $$$ to rent there according to my Craigslist searches; but Boston is supposedly finally more $$ than San Francisco for rents (but probably not housing prices in that city or Bay Area in general yet? I recall a big gap between their housing prices and ours over the years, but maybe it's relatively close now?)

What a shame. But I realize many or all people commenting on articles about it have no sympathy, claiming locals there elected officials responsible for this.

I visited three times years over the years but not since 1998.

Just curious if the current malaise and eyesore of this once-great world city is truly palpable for most residents and visitors...or overblown? Or probably just certain intense pockets?

I had heard decades ago by some or many how we're "sister cities!" But then and now, some or most seem to scoff at that.

I think many reports detail how San Francisco has had the worst pandemic recovery.

Has anybody here visited in the past few years who can compare San Francisco to its former self or to Boston?

Even Nordstrom, a new flagship Whole foods Market and similar have closed or will soon. Depressing.

Is it depressing to walk around the city? Even frightening? Still better than most any American city, whether aesthetically, fun!and maybe even still some vibrancy despite the hardships since Covid?

Last fall, I chatted with a female young professional at the Fenway T stop who said she used to live downtown Boston but moved to San Francisco a year or so ago. She seemed to really like it there and didn't seem to miss our beloved Boston. But maybe she didn't know how great it had been there, at least for certain people. She did mention the many car breakins as a drawback there.

Not sure if she lived in an upscale part of town or not.

And my nephew visited last month for the first time while in San Jose on business. He was only able to drive to San Francisco for a few hours to walk around, but called it an "awesome" city. I asked about all the current drawbacks, and he acknowledged them but said the homeless are "just in certain parts of the city"; I guess he confined his touring to the best areas, thus didn't see or smell as much of the blight!

Seems Boston is doing relatively well now. In good weather, I usually see lots of people walking around most days and early evenings in the desirable parts of our city. Sure, we still have some abandoned retail and restaurants mainly due to Covid, but many new ones are replacing some of them making it exciting and interesting, at least for me, to walk in certain parts of downtown Boston.

[robr2]

My son lives in San Francisco. He and I spoke yesterday and he says yes, there are homeless, drug use, etc. in the city but he has yet to see any feces on the street. He said it's just like any city - there are problems and they get attention. I was there recently and felt perfectly safe in the areas I visited.

One of the 12 Whole Foods in the city closed. Nordstrom is closing it's store in part due to being in a failing mall - foot traffic is down in the city due to fewer workers coming into work and malls are not where people want to shop.

It's interesting that just like other major cities, crime is down in SF over the past 6 years. Property crime - what is highlighted on the news - is up since last year but still at lower levels than 2017.

When he was looking to move there, some of my in-laws were shocked that he would take such a risk. They said the same thing when he considered Chicago and even Cambridge. But they're in their little NH suburb bubble and aren't the kind to see what the world is really like beyond the news.

[AtkinsonDan]

I have personal experience with Boston but not San Francisco. My understanding is Boston in more well rounded with it's institutional base (universities, hospitals, government facilities) while San Francisco is more heavily dependent on tech-based office workers. Strictly hypothetically speaking, if WFH was to become dominant Boston would still provide reasons for people to visit much more than San Francisco. Thus San Francisco could fall into a doom loop whereas it would be much more unlikely for Boston to do so.

[bostonguy1960]

Test...

[yesmaybe]

All the lab space and workers keeps it from being like SF.

Basically SF is screwed unless RTO happens. All the SF techbros have gone to Sacramento and they aren't coming back unless forced back to the office.

If you worked at Apple/Facebook/Google/etc, they are 30-40 miles away from SF.

[bostongymjunkie]

For one thing, SF doesn't have a great deal of residential areas downtown, it's mostly commercial. Many of those who lived and worked downtown have since bailed. San Fran has roughly 8K homeless, we have about half that. SF has seen a mild increase in homicide (less than 10%) and moderate increase in robberies (over 15%), as well as dramatic increases in overdose deaths. Shoplifting runs rampant. I read something recently that said a poll of residents showed that something like 75 percent felt the city was heading in the wrong direction. Like others have said we have more going for us than just tech. We also have had relatively rational Governors to balance off city politics to some degree, unlike California. We aren't immune though.

[msRB311]

San Francisco seems over built and over crowded. Where I fear Boston is headed. SF had the ocean which never seems to lose its appeal so I can't imagine it will become the next Detroit. But setting the stage so everyone has to head to one place to work just doesn't seem to fare well. Spread out companies.

SF must have had other things than tech going for it. It's been a popular place since the 80s at least. Many sitcoms were based there. Remember full house ? No one in that house worked in tech lol.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by msRB311

San Francisco seems over built and over crowded. Where I fear Boston is headed. SF had the ocean which never seems to lose its appeal so I can't imagine it will become the next Detroit. But setting the stage so everyone has to head to one place to work just doesn't seem to fare well. Spread out companies.

SF must have had other things than tech going for it. It's been a popular place since the 80s at least. Many sitcoms were based there. Remember full house ? No one in that house worked in tech lol.

It's been sanitized and corporatized. It's former character has been eroded, like Boston and some other cities. The big corporations don't seem to want to play there anymore, so we'll see where it goes from here.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by msRB311

San Francisco seems over built and over crowded. Where I fear Boston is headed. SF had the ocean which never seems to lose its appeal so I can't imagine it will become the next Detroit. But setting the stage so everyone has to head to one place to work just doesn't seem to fare well. Spread out companies.

SF must have had other things than tech going for it. It's been a popular place since the 80s at least. Many sitcoms were based there. Remember full house ? No one in that house worked in tech lol.

Sitcoms are pure fiction, just sayin'.

[htfdcolt]

I've been to SF numerous times, dating back to 1989. The Tenderloin and surrounding district has always been a haven for druggies and homeless, dating back to the 90s. The reason for the current adverse publicity is largely political IMO, not helped by the fact that Union Square and the Moscone Ctr, which attract most of the tourists and have the large hotels, is immediately adjacent to the Tenderloin district.