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With Denver, it is THE city/metro in the Mountain West and it has the second highest rate of government or federal government employment in the country only behind DC. While there is a good sized private sector, the public sector is pretty big and helps in terms of its white collar vibe. It is also a bigger city in terms of land and can absorb any blight/poverty due to this.
Also, its Black community is largely in either Denver or Aurora, with the rest sprinkled throughout. Aurora actually has a higher Black percentage than Denver(around 17% vs 9-10%). So, the cultural diversity is just different.
Some do not like Denver in that it is isolated from other cities. However, it can be considered an unique geographical advantage as it is the largest city serving a vast area of the West and the great plains with the nearest big cities about 500 miles. It is the service and distribution center for Colorado, Western Kansas, Western Nebraska, Northern New Mexico and the Mountain West. Wyoming to the north is the least populated state and Cheyenne the largest city has only about 60,000, so it depends much on Denver. Of course, that is part of the reason for a large federal government footprint to support this large region.
Now with the growing energy boom in the West, it will benefit as that service center. Also, it is in the middle of the country and the Denver International Airport is one the busiest in the nation. Being in the center, there are many more distribution warehouses serving this vast region.
Since Denver has been touted as a good city to live as for weather, recreation and public services, it is attracting the best and brightest who are creating new industries and technology. The public transit is Denver is considered on the best in the country and is now constructing the largest buildout of rail in the nation. It has embraced transit oriented development which attracts the smart people who want walkable neighborhoods with good services.
As for blight, that little which existed is fast disappearing with all neighborhoods are in transition. Since Denver is booming, the continguous suburbs are also moving into better developments. That is opposed to Buffalo, where Cheektowaga on edge of the decay of East Buffalo, is also deteriorating as it the suburbs follow the city.
Western New York has some great amenities that Denver will never have. It has the beautiful small idyllic towns. It has extensive water resources. It has excellent fertile soil that brings forth lush growth of fruits and vegetables. I think that WNY should be satisfied that it is becoming smaller and stop try to compete with bigger and more prosperous regions. Nothing wrong in being small and great as a hidden gem.
To be fair, Buffalo has more going for it now than it did just a decade ago, in terms of quality of life improvements. However, the job market still sucks. I know a lot of young people who came here and left because they got discouraged with the lack of opportunities.
Some do not like Denver in that it is isolated from other cities. However, it can be considered an unique geographical advantage as it is the largest city serving a vast area of the West and the great plains with the nearest big cities about 500 miles. It is the service and distribution center for Colorado, Western Kansas, Western Nebraska, Northern New Mexico and the Mountain West. Wyoming to the north is the least populated state and Cheyenne the largest city has only about 60,000, so it depends much on Denver. Of course, that is part of the reason for a large federal government footprint to support this large region.
Now with the growing energy boom in the West, it will benefit as that service center. Also, it is in the middle of the country and the Denver International Airport is one the busiest in the nation. Being in the center, there are many more distribution warehouses serving this vast region.
Since Denver has been touted as a good city to live as for weather, recreation and public services, it is attracting the best and brightest who are creating new industries and technology. The public transit is Denver is considered on the best in the country and is now constructing the largest buildout of rail in the nation. It has embraced transit oriented development which attracts the smart people who want walkable neighborhoods with good services.
As for blight, that little which existed is fast disappearing with all neighborhoods are in transition. Since Denver is booming, the continguous suburbs are also moving into better developments. That is opposed to Buffalo, where Cheektowaga on edge of the decay of East Buffalo, is also deteriorating as it the suburbs follow the city.
Western New York has some great amenities that Denver will never have. It has the beautiful small idyllic towns. It has extensive water resources. It has excellent fertile soil that brings forth lush growth of fruits and vegetables. I think that WNY should be satisfied that it is becoming smaller and stop try to compete with bigger and more prosperous regions. Nothing wrong in being small and great as a hidden gem.
Livecontent
To put the two cities into perspective, Denver is 153 square miles and Buffalo is 40 square miles. Cheektowaga is 29.5 square miles, Amherst is 53.5 square miles, Tonawanda(town) is 18.8 square miles, West Seneca is 21.4 square miles and Lackawanna is 6.6 square miles. So, Denver and Buffalo with every adjacent suburban town are about the same in terms of land size, with the adjusted Buffalo being about 13 or so more square miles.
You don't even want to get me started! I was born and raised in the Northeast (PA) but moved here from Seattle (after 13 years) in 2008 for a job -- and now cannot wait to get out (coming in 2015). The horrible weather (personally I love being outdoors and comfortable and that is only possible a few months out of the year here), the high property, sales and state income taxes, the lack of job opportunities (especially for the educated), I could go on and on. I think Buffalo and WNY do have their charms (good museums, some nice walkable neighborhoods, amazing architecture, decent colleges and universities), but the cons far outweigh the pros, especially when I can get the pros in dozens of other places at lower cost and with sunnier, warmer weather.
I also strongly agree with #'s 3, 4, 5 and 6 -- Buffalo really is a "closed community" in many ways -- which is antithetical to progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBluesBrother
1) The weather. Four seasons? Psssh. The only time it's truly nice is May and mid-June. September & October can be ok for the fall colors if it doesn't rain too much.
Late June through August is hot and muggy and November through April is dark, cloudy, damp and cold. The snow is nice and pretty when it first falls, but it turns into a gray slush real quick. Then you realize that your commute time is doubled because of it.
Oh but winter sports right? Wrong. It's not the nice mountain snow you get in other parts of the country. It's slushy, and gross. Plus the temperature tends to fluctuate above and below freezing during winter, so you get flooded streets and muddy swamps, followed by 8 inches of snow. If you work a 9 to 5, you can't reliably get good ski weather every weekend (It's also a 45 minute drive to nearest slopes, longer if you want something of decent length).
2) Lousy airport service. Back in the 1990's, some dumbasses decided to make Buffalo's airport smaller. Well now it's acting as a growth inhibitor. If you want to go anywhere west you're going to have to go east first. It also means having to book flights at 5 am and get there at 3 am. Ridiculous.
3) Drunks. There's a general trashiness to the culture and people get way out of control with binge drinking and it's not uncommon to see weekly brawls on Allen street at 4:30 am. I guess if you're young and like the party scene, this is a good place. But there's waayy too many drunk drivers on the road. Don't even get me started on the wretched behavior of degenerates on St. Patrick's day or at any Bills game.
4) Racism. Buffalo was ranked as the 5th most segregated city in America by a recent Business Insider study. There was also a documentary project called "The Whiteness Project" where the guy was trying to get interviews with white people and see how racist they were. He went to three different cities and couldn't find racist enough people until he got to Buffalo, NY. This is just a recent example, but I've experienced more racism in Buffalo than anywhere else in the country. This is the area where people overwhelmingly supported Carl Paladino for governor, after he said inner city blacks should be moved to old prisons, far from the city.
5) Insular culture. In most places you here people ask "what do you do?" In Buffalo, it's "where did you go to school?" They're not talking about college. It doesn't matter if you're 50 years old, people in Buffalo place way too high a value on where someone went to high school or even middle school. It's part of the insular culture here and why so many transplants have a tough time breaking into the local community here. This leads to a culture of nepotism which permeates everything. You can't get a job here unless you know the right person. Even in lefty activists non-profits, it's all very in-group. It's ten times worse in government. The entire political machine is one big system of nepotism and patronage jobs.
6) Sports-obsessed. For some people this is a positive, but I hate it. There other sports obsessed cities, but I avoid them. You can't go to any bar and not talk about the Bills or Sabres. If you don't follow football and hockey, people think you're weird. I was never into professional sports and never will be. Going to a game can be a fun experience, but I don't get caught up in the fandom and know every players name (let alone league standings and stats). There are a million things to talk about, but most Buffalonians can only speak Bills or Sabres, even though the majority of them are fat, out of shape slobs who can't even run 10 feet without stopping for breath. There's a small clique of artsy people, but that goes back to the insular problem.
Only been on the Buffalo board here a few times as have been only recently been considering re-locating there. I am a native NY'er growing up in the city then LI where I am now. Lived in So.Fla for 7 years but due to health & family reason came back to NY. Now ready to possibly leave LI again and have been considering Buffalo recently because I have 3 cousins & 1 good friend that grew up in NYC & LI area & all live in Buffalo now.
Of the 3 cousins one went there for college around 1980 & met her husband who is from Buffalo. Married him had family & stayed there. The other 2 (all 3 are sisters) sold their home here on LI in past 8 years and moved to Buffalo. They love it there & have not had any problems. One started her own business & also does real estate on the side. The other has 2 jobs as well. But that is what they want to do as they enjoy it very much. in all the years up in Buffalo they never had a problem making friends at all. But they are very outgoing professional individuals working very hard in their jobs which they always have done.
That being said I am still very weary about adding Buffalo to the mix of places considering. Mostly for me is that while I have moved a lot of times (even Greenville,SC for a year & half) in the past 7 years I am really looking to move for final time at this point. Everyone I know up there does always say they can't wait to move to a warmer climate eventually.
I really don't want to end up saying that & regretting that I chose to move up there. Decisions...Decisions.
The racism here is real. Every city in the US has some sort of race/class divide, but the attitudes of people in Buffalo are really backwards. I was surprised how many interracial couples I saw here in South Florida, despite everything I heard. In Buffalo a lot of people still have a problem with it. Just because there's a little diversity in the West Side and in certain parts of North Buffalo, doesn't change the overall segregation of the city. I've driven around south Buffalo and seen numerous confederate flags and nooses hanging in windows. ****, I've seen more confederate flags in Western New York than I have anywhere in the South. The rednecks in the suburbs and exurbs of Buffalo are some of the most racist people in the country.
Racism is everywhere in this country. I've traveled the entire country... Buffalo certainly has its race issues, but it is not any different than a Chicago or Detroit. Even these three Rust Belt cities are no where near the level of pure hatred towards blacks as I witnessed in the Southeast (I'm black, btw).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBluesBrother
1) The weather. Four seasons? Psssh. The only time it's truly nice is May and mid-June. September & October can be ok for the fall colors if it doesn't rain too much.
Late June through August is hot and muggy and November through April is dark, cloudy, damp and cold. The snow is nice and pretty when it first falls, but it turns into a gray slush real quick. Then you realize that your commute time is doubled because of it.
Oh but winter sports right? Wrong. It's not the nice mountain snow you get in other parts of the country. It's slushy, and gross. Plus the temperature tends to fluctuate above and below freezing during winter, so you get flooded streets and muddy swamps, followed by 8 inches of snow. If you work a 9 to 5, you can't reliably get good ski weather every weekend (It's also a 45 minute drive to nearest slopes, longer if you want something of decent length).
No offense, but this is really complainy pants. If all you want is 65-75 degrees, move to San Diego. Buffalo really has three distinct seasons - Winter, Summer, and Fall. Spring is non existant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBluesBrother
2) Lousy airport service. Back in the 1990's, some dumbasses decided to make Buffalo's airport smaller. Well now it's acting as a growth inhibitor. If you want to go anywhere west you're going to have to go east first. It also means having to book flights at 5 am and get there at 3 am. Ridiculous.
This is simply false. Clearly you haven't traveled out of BNIA lately. It has expanded service since it is now the 6th largest airport in Canada (lol). If you want to go West, you either will go through Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, Las Vegas, or Phoenix. If you go international, you will go East to Newark. Not satisfied? Drive your car across the border and fly International out of Toronto. It works both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBluesBrother
3) Drunks. There's a general trashiness to the culture and people get way out of control with binge drinking and it's not uncommon to see weekly brawls on Allen street at 4:30 am. I guess if you're young and like the party scene, this is a good place. But there's waayy too many drunk drivers on the road. Don't even get me started on the wretched behavior of degenerates on St. Patrick's day or at any Bills game.
4) Racism. Buffalo was ranked as the 5th most segregated city in America by a recent Business Insider study. There was also a documentary project called "The Whiteness Project" where the guy was trying to get interviews with white people and see how racist they were. He went to three different cities and couldn't find racist enough people until he got to Buffalo, NY. This is just a recent example, but I've experienced more racism in Buffalo than anywhere else in the country. This is the area where people overwhelmingly supported Carl Paladino for governor, after he said inner city blacks should be moved to old prisons, far from the city.
5) Insular culture. In most places you here people ask "what do you do?" In Buffalo, it's "where did you go to school?" They're not talking about college. It doesn't matter if you're 50 years old, people in Buffalo place way too high a value on where someone went to high school or even middle school. It's part of the insular culture here and why so many transplants have a tough time breaking into the local community here. This leads to a culture of nepotism which permeates everything. You can't get a job here unless you know the right person. Even in lefty activists non-profits, it's all very in-group. It's ten times worse in government. The entire political machine is one big system of nepotism and patronage jobs.
6) Sports-obsessed. For some people this is a positive, but I hate it. There other sports obsessed cities, but I avoid them. You can't go to any bar and not talk about the Bills or Sabres. If you don't follow football and hockey, people think you're weird. I was never into professional sports and never will be. Going to a game can be a fun experience, but I don't get caught up in the fandom and know every players name (let alone league standings and stats). There are a million things to talk about, but most Buffalonians can only speak Bills or Sabres, even though the majority of them are fat, out of shape slobs who can't even run 10 feet without stopping for breath. There's a small clique of artsy people, but that goes back to the insular problem.
The rest of these aren't any different from other Rust Belt cities. It's just the culture... *shrugs*
What work is left here that is blue collar -- it's all left -- which is part of the issue.
Buffalo needs to adapt to a NEW economy - white collar, creative, entrepreneurial - and it's doing so very slowly, which is hurting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Port North
God, will you get off your high horse already? Denver is a white collar city and Buffalo isn't. Seems like you want everyplace to be the same. Buffalo has real people that are not part of the boring white collar global agnostic elite. Thank God not everyplace in the world is Manhattan or Silicon Valley. It would be a very sterile place devoid of real meaning.
Besides you paint a picture of Buffalo from 1975, the area has progressed since then, but at the same time hasn't sold its soul. I'm proud of Western New York for what it is. I've lived in a place that people aspire to for 15 years and I can tell you that it isn't all that.
To put the two cities into perspective, Denver is 153 square miles and Buffalo is 40 square miles. Cheektowaga is 29.5 square miles, Amherst is 53.5 square miles, Tonawanda(town) is 18.8 square miles, West Seneca is 21.4 square miles and Lackawanna is 6.6 square miles. So, Denver and Buffalo with every adjacent suburban town are about the same in terms of land size, with the adjusted Buffalo being about 13 or so more square miles.
You are making one big mistake that many people make. That Land area of Denver includes that immense new Denver International Airport of 54 sq. miles which is mostly a buffer space around the airport. It cannot have any extensive development to allow the airport to be away from housing. It was added to Denver from Adams County for the airport. Yes Denver is still bigger than Buffalo. We have also the suburb of Aurora which is much bigger in population than Buffalo at 350,000 and area of about 154 square miles, being Colorado 3rd. Largest city after Colorado Springs.
Today Denver is bigger but when I came here it was equivalent to Buffalo in population as Denver, even with more land, is not as dense in population as Buffalo was back then with many new areas to the south like a suburbs in density. I have been here 36 years and all of the suburbs did not have the residents of today and some did not exist.
I live in Arvada which now has the same population of Cheektwaga when I left at about 110,000 a big growth from 84,000 when I got here. Now Cheektowaga has lost population to that what Arvada was at that time. Very Interesting! Arvada is a much nicer area than Cheektowaga with extensive parks and trails. It even has an olde town area with an old main street which Cheektowaga in its sprawl never developed. In 2016, it will have a commuter rail line which adds to the excellent public transit. Public Transit is Cheektowaga--not very good. https://arvada.org/
The biggest problem with Buffalo is that that New York State is one of the largest State but has only one huge big city at 9 million and diminished little Buffalo at about 255,000 as the second largest city. California, Florida, Texas all have multiple big cities. That is really strange. Why? because the State is not balanced and the NYC sucks everything from the rest of the state.
Denver advantage is that it is the capital of Colorado and consequently has more control over its destiny while Buffalo is subject to the whims of the Lords of New York City. The only way to fix it is to break away from New York and form another state with all the other New York towns that are slaves to NYC.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 10-28-2014 at 09:09 PM..
The biggest problem with Buffalo is that that New York State is one of the largest State but has only one huge big city at 9 million and diminished little Buffalo at about 255,000 as the second largest city. California, Florida, Texas all have multiple big cities. That is really strange. Why? because the State is not balanced and the NYC sucks everything from the rest of the state.
Ehhh.... no this is disingenious. It is inadequate to compare the municipal boundary, especially when about half of NYC's Metro Area is in NJ and Connecticut.
Buffalo, Rochester, and Albany are all roughly a million in the metro area (+/- 200,000 residents). Syracuse also is over 500,000 residents.
The point is, the state isn't quite as unbalanced as other states / provinces out there. Just head over to the Illinois section and you'll see how bitter the rest of the state is over Chicago.
Some other Metros / States with most of the population residing in just one Metro Area:
Minnesota
Massachusetts
Georgia
Virginia
Illinois
Ontario, Canada
Probably more; I just can't think of them right now.
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Here, here! Bravo for saying it!
