The state of California to boycott Arizona? (San Diego, Oakland: cost, move to)

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

You can always tell who's cluelessly insensitive to minority concerns. Just look at how some view boycotting? Minorities would be nowhere in this country had it not been for boycotts (maybe that's what some want?). In the past, it was average people doing it. Now it's certain local governments.

If the boycotts are useless, there sure is a lot of noise from the other side trying to downplay it. It obvious is a concern or else you wouldn't hear so much noise against it.

In some cases I would agree. No one in their right mind would say Rosa Parks didn't do the best thing anyone could for blacks. AZ not honoring Martin Luther King Jrs holiday (birthday) was their choice and they have that right, but I think it was a huge mistake, but the illegal immagration issue is totally different as I see it. We are dealing with people coming to our country illegally and expecting fair and just treatment.

As for downplaying the boycotting, I am not sure most are downplaying it as much as sick and tired of some who are "in your face" with guess who is boycotting now? The other side is the ones that start the debate. I know, at least in my case, I would not pay much attention either way if it wasn't brought up constantly.

Nita

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Historically, Arizona should and eventually does care about how others view their state. When Arizona lost the Super Bowl because they refused to honor Martin Luther King the state lost a lot of revenue and only further tarnished their reputation as being insensitive to minorities. If the people of Arizona agree with these legislative policies then they should not complain when boycotts are called and they lose money. Seems dumb to me!

And, we have had 2 Super Bowls since.

The State of Arizona is taking the lead, Nationally regarding this illegal immigration issue. If you, or others want to believe, wrongly, that AZ is wrong, than, so be it.

But, its a fact that a majority of Americans support Arizona's passage of 1070. A majority of States want the Feds to "back off". A large number of states will be passing similar laws before the end of the years.

OBTW - Arizonians are NOT complaining about the "boycotts" - which were ill thought out and some are not being REVERSED.

[ladoll]

Originally Posted by Greatday

And, we have had 2 Super Bowls since.

The State of Arizona is taking the lead, Nationally regarding this illegal immigration issue. If you, or others want to believe, wrongly, that AZ is wrong, than, so be it.

But, its a fact that a majority of Americans support Arizona's passage of 1070. A majority of States want the Feds to "back off". A large number of states will be passing similar laws before the end of the years.

OBTW - Arizonians are NOT complaining about the "boycotts" - which were ill thought out and some are not being REVERSED.

A lot of people also supported Jim Crow laws, but that sure didn't make it right.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by ladoll

A lot of people also supported Jim Crow laws, but that sure didn't make it right.

A lot of people support and embrace illegal immigrants, but that sure doesn't make it right.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Greatday

And, we have had 2 Super Bowls since.

The State of Arizona is taking the lead, Nationally regarding this illegal immigration issue. If you, or others want to believe, wrongly, that AZ is wrong, than, so be it.

But, its a fact that a majority of Americans support Arizona's passage of 1070. A majority of States want the Feds to "back off". A large number of states will be passing similar laws before the end of the years.

OBTW - Arizonians are NOT complaining about the "boycotts" - which were ill thought out and some are not being REVERSED.

(warning - anecdotal post)

I talked to a friend of mine in Arizona who actually is a supporter (with reservations) of SB 1070. He said that it was more of a gesture to try to call attention to a problem, and he doesn't expect it to be abused in most of the state. He said that the only potential problems in his opinion would be in Maricopa County, which he referred to as a "crime ridden hellhole" (his view of Phoenix and Maricopa in general was like Mr. Fantastic's view of Oakland), and he said that the problems there are largely due to Sheriff Joe Arpaio (about whom he said, "someone ought to bust a cap through his head") - he said the problem isn't the law but a combination of the severe problems with illegal immigration and a thug law enforcement agency - the Maricopa Sheriff's Department.

I don't agree with him but it was interesting for me to talk to someone who supported SB 1070 in AZ. He's not Latino but he said he sees no problems for Latinos in the rest of AZ as a result of SB 1070, and that Arpaio is the real problem.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by ladoll

A lot of people also supported Jim Crow laws, but that sure didn't make it right.

Not even a reasonable analogy.

[Gentoo]

AZ not honoring Martin Luther King Jrs holiday (birthday) was their choice and they have that right, but I think it was a huge mistake

That's just it. What on earth would cause Arizona not to acknowledge it when even the southern states did?

[but the illegal immagration issue is totally different as I see it. We are dealing with people coming to our country illegally and expecting fair and just treatment.

This part we both completely agree on. It's the way AZ is dealing with it where we part ways. We souldn't just support any action just because we're fed up with something. That's not the American way...or wasn't.

As for downplaying the boycotting, I am not sure most are downplaying it as much as sick and tired of some who are "in your face" with guess who is boycotting now? The other side is the ones that start the debate. I know, at least in my case, I would not pay much attention either way if it wasn't brought up constantly.

Those who downplay the boycotting are doing so in order to marginalize the boycotters. They know that boycotting can be effective and that's the last thing they want.

[andyadhi01]

Originally Posted by nmnita

but the illegal immagration issue is totally different as I see it. We are dealing with people coming to our country illegally and expecting fair and just treatment.

The illegals are not asking for anything and at best trying to not get too much attention. The criticism of the law stems from the fact that it is open to abuse and can be detrimental to even US citizens who appear 'illegal'! The law by definition can only be enforced through racial profiling and there is no way in hell law enforcement will be able to verify the citizenship of every person they encounter. Since I assume that you don't look illegal you won't be carrying your passport all the time but many AZ residents will be forced to do this. Are you not getting this issue or are you simply okay with a large chunk of population getting harassed about their citizenship status just because they look illegal??

Even the UN Human Rights experts criticized the law!!!

UN Human Rights Experts Criticize Arizona Law | UN Dispatch

“A disturbing pattern of legislative activity hostile to ethnic minorities and immigrants has been established with the adoption of an immigration law that may allow for police action targeting individuals on the basis of their perceived ethnic origin, and a law that suppresses school programs featuring the histories and cultures of ethnic minorities,”

I guess you can now move to AZ and enjoy living with people who think like you! Welcome Jim Crow 2.0

[ladoll]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Not even a reasonable analogy.

My point flew right over your (and Curmudgeon) head. Just because a lot of people supported Jim Crow laws doesn't mean that the laws were right. You can't say because something is popular that it makes something right/ok.

[Gentoo]

And, we have had 2 Super Bowls since.

It also finally acknowledged MLK day too, bee thorough.

But, its a fact that a majority of Americans support Arizona's passage of 1070. A majority of States want the Feds to "back off". A large number of states will be passing similar laws before the end of the years.

Some have posted stats stating the opposite. Have anything yourself that says otherwise?

Arizonians are NOT complaining about the "boycotts

Yeah they are, read this thread more thoroughly.

A lot of people support and embrace illegal immigrants, but that sure doesn't make it right

People embrace illegals really? Who does besides those who may be illegal themselves?

The illegals are not asking for anything and at best trying to not get too much attention. The criticism of the law stems from the fact that it is open to abuse and can be detrimental to even US citizens who appear 'illegal'!

We know this thread is crazy when I agree with andyahi.

The law by definition can only be enforced through racial profiling and there is no way in hell law enforcement will be able to verify the citizenship of every person they encounter

I agree 100%

Are you not getting this issue or are you simply okay with a large chunk of population getting harassed about their citizenship status just because they look illegal??

Again, I agree.

Even the UN Human Rights experts criticized the law!!!

UN Human Rights Experts Criticize Arizona Law | UN Dispatch

“A disturbing pattern of legislative activity hostile to ethnic minorities and immigrants has been established with the adoption of an immigration law that may allow for police action targeting individuals on the basis of their perceived ethnic origin, and a law that suppresses school programs featuring the histories and cultures of ethnic minorities,”

I guess you can now move to AZ and enjoy living with people who think like you! Welcome Jim Crow 2.0

You know these poeple don't acknowledge to UN. As far as they're concerned, we're an island and the world is flat.

My point flew right over your (and Curmudgeon) head. Just because a lot of people supported Jim Crow laws doesn't mean that the laws were right. You can't say because something is popular that it makes something right/ok.

And just in case you all missed ladoll's point, the majority of Germans also supported the Nazi's. I'm sure that rings home to a few of you.