Prop 8 overturned (public school, cost of, legality)

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dude

not to mention this ruling is going to attract lots of out of towners who will come to get married, people will start moving here, they wont find jobs, they will be demanding of well fare as they will likely be liberal etc. costing our state millions of dollars to file their marriage liscenses when they dont even live here

Nonesense. California would be the only western state to actually have it legal. I don't think hordes of people are flocking to Iowa and it is the only state in it's region to allow it.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Nonesense. California would be the only western state to actually have it legal. I don't think hordes of people are flocking to Iowa and it is the only state in it's region to allow it.

Not to mention that if the gays all started coming to California in droves, your property values would likely increase. And you would get some AWESOME bars and interior decorating shops. Really, this is a "win" for everyone.

[revelated]

What a useless endeavor.

So instead of providing a qualified argument, people say "well you must have been gay to choose the opposite!!" no. Flawed logic.

If I choose to wear a black shirt, it is not because I first tried on a white shirt and didn't like it. I woke up, I said I want to wear black, so I did. Previously having tried something is not a prerequisite for choice, people.

Homosexuals choose the same gender. That's fine. But they CHOOSE that. I don't subscribe to the wild-eyed theory that somehow, homosexuality is a genetic thing, a disease, a predisposition, an instinct, or any of that mess. It's a CHOICE. Truth, there are some homosexuals who chose to be so AFTER being in a heterosexual or bisexual relationship, but not all. Some just openly chose from an early age to lean towards the same gender. CHOICE. They have control and they exert it.

Don't spout off gibberish about sex changes and skin bleaching and all that mess. Focus on what is important.

A black man is a black man. Being black is not a matter of skin pigment. It's DNA. IT does not change. Someone telling me I can't sip water at a fountain because I'm black is WAYYYYYY different than a religious fanatic telling two homosexuals that they can't walk the aisle, especially if said homosexuals have an alternate option that affords them the opportunity to do a similar act - namely, a civil union. If that civil union is broken on its face, the homosexuals should work to fix it.

Now, if the government said that a man and another man, or a woman and another woman, cannot unite AT ALL, with no rights as a couple AT ALL, then I can maybe see some discrimination, and I would gladly join my voice to lobby for civil union rights, because those do not belong to the church. But this isn't about the ability to enter into prenups, now is it? It's about people wanting to say they're married. A petty reason, IMHO.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dude

cant even asnwer the question, why are you so concerned with prop 8 when you dont live here.

You people are so worked up about a state you dont even live in, because you are obsessed with the idea that california is some liberal utopia.

but it is not, and we dont want gay marraige here, we already have had a say on the issue.

so out of towners like you, just coming here to stir up debate, when the issue does not effect them, shows your low character



anyways this is going to the supreme court, and the supreme court will uphold that a state has a right to decide who gets married and to what

Dude, enough with the territorial pissings.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by revelated

Homosexuals choose the same gender. That's fine. But they CHOOSE that.

Oh yes. I still remember that day, way back in middle school, when I was faced with "The Choice" myself. It was agonizing--most of my friends at that time were guys, but I found a lot of the girls pretty cute. Ultimately, I ended up choosing Team Hetero--it just seemed a better fit for me. I was accused of being rather boring and only trying to "fit in" at the time, but ultimately I think I made the right choice. Although signing myself up for a lifetime of vilification, scorn, ridicule and hatred sounded enticing at times, the power of Claudia Schiffer modeling Guess jeans was simply too great. So here I sit today, a happily married heterosexual. And I owe it all to that oh-so-important choice I made way back in middle school. Ain't it funny how life turns out?

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by 14thandyou

not to mention that if the gays all started coming to california in droves, your property values would likely increase. And you would get some awesome bars and interior decorating shops. Really, this is a "win" for everyone.

lol

[Voyageur]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dude

anyways this is going to the supreme court, and the supreme court will uphold that a state has a right to decide who gets married and to what

Kennedy
Ginsberg
Breyer
Sotomayor
Kagan

That's a five Justice majority. Do tell, which of those do you think won't vote to uphold Judge Walker's ruling?

[californio sur]

I think a person has to examine what makes them for or against gay people. Some prefer to not be honest with others at least on the public forum. A good example is the number of Californians who secretly voted for Prop 8 and then were shocked when their names appeared on a list if they gave money to the Prop 8 campaign. The Catholic hierarchy was embarrassed when it was made public that they funneled money to the Mormons [a religious group they even claim are not Christian]. But ultimately a person must come to grips why they are the kind of person they are and accept the good or bad reactions from others.

For those of us who have gay family members, it seems automatic that we would support them in every way possible. Vice President Cheney is a good example of a man who is seen as "Mr Republican" yet parted company with many in his party because he has a lesbian daughter and is now a proud grandpa who loves his children and grandchildren more than siding with people who claim his daughter is actually a pervert who chose to be a pervert.

This discussion has been very enlightening and reveals a lot about posters.

[HtownLove]

The question wasn't whether or not the state has a right to decide who gets married, it was whether the interest in gay marriage is rational or not.

It is easy to argue that the state has this right or that right. But when it comes down to the question at hand, the argument fails miserably. The state's interest in gay marriage in prop 8 was not rational.


To the poster who posted nonsense about bleaching skin and crap like that missed the point. In Loving vs Virginia the court said that the state's interest in preventing blacks from marrying white is not a compelling one. So you cannot say that same sex partners can still get married, just not to each other is different from the Plaintiffs in Loving v Virginia. In the Loving case the plaintiffs could get married, just not to each other. Same darn thing.

Both factors:either by race and by sex it is a choice. You could choose to marry a man or you could choose to marry a black person. Same darn thing, it is a choice that the government has no rational reason to prohibit.

Good luck in trying to get the Supreme Court to disagree on those arguments. It is well settled. The pro H8ers should have come up with better arguments

[Gentoo]

The question wasn't whether or not the state has a right to decide who gets married, it was whether the interest in gay marriage is rational or not.

This is exactly the reason why I've stopped trying to have a serious discussion with certain posters. Some (though not all) of those who are prop 8 supporters have become completely irrational with this subject and have made themselves impossible to talk to.