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Again, you seem to be rewriting history. Italians had huge communities where Italian, not English, was spoken. Businesses that wanted their business would have to speak Italian.
Even today, you can hear Italian, Polish, etc in some of the old eastern ethnic communities. Have you ever traveled outside of the west coast?
You're not getting the point, old stock Americans forget how they got here, the vast majority of Americans have ancestors that came here illegally.
When you look at it historically, not much as changed, the only real difference is that the new immigrants aren't white and I think that increases the sort of "us/them" distinction that exists between old and new stock Americans.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
What has changed over time : Lost decade: Debt fuels slow economic growth, unemployment - Jun. 8, 2011 Is US Debt Problem As Big As The 1990s Latin America Crisis? - Kenneth Rapoza - BRIC Breaker - Forbes
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tYH7kb8DDYE/TVsOxEEYuXI/AAAAAAAABCw/HUO4GF5Jc8g/s1600/debt%2Bamerica.jpg (broken link)
China says a U.S. default is 'playing with fire' | Marketplace From American Public Media (http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/06/09/am-china-says-a-us-default-is-playing-with-fire/?refid=0 - broken link)
China Demands American Austerity | Politics and Economics Right Side News (http://www.rightsidenews.com/2011060913776/us/politics-and-economics/china-demands-american-austerity.html - broken link)
Since you are a scholar in history.. I recall Rome was once a great empire too before they collapsed. Yes, it could have been x was historically this way .. but is it sustainable? If you say no.. and to people who say, lets end it : No Because it was always that way.. then you basically want a collapse.
A room has a capacity of 100 people .. People flow in at a rate of 1 person/day. Illegally another 1 person/day enters ... once the room hits capacity after 50 days the legal tide is adjusted.. great system.. except there are a bunch of clowns who fight the enforcement to prevent the entry of that 1 illegal/day.. their sentiment : it was always that way bro .. what's your problem.. and so the flow continues unchecked.. criminals/murders/rapist as well as people who want to do good for themselves enter unchecked... and well, things get uncomfortable.. Should we change it now? NAH BRO .. WE ALWAYS LET ILLEGALS IN .. and well, you know how this story goes...
As for the measures to try to prevent illegals from entering and its association w/ profiling.. etc .. its funny how a couple a' thousand Americans get killed in a building by some whackos and we stand to allow all sorts of our freedoms to be infringed upon .. all sorts of discomfort and don't at all protest the profiling .. but let someone suggest .. god forbid you do a background check on people committing crimes... people living amongst others in apt. complexes, communities, and schools .. A simple verification they are legal .. and oh gawd . oh gawd the humanity !!!!!
China says a U.S. default is 'playing with fire' | Marketplace From American Public Media (http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/06/09/am-china-says-a-us-default-is-playing-with-fire/?refid=0 - broken link)
China Demands American Austerity | Politics and Economics Right Side News (http://www.rightsidenews.com/2011060913776/us/politics-and-economics/china-demands-american-austerity.html - broken link)
Since you are a scholar in history.. I recall Rome was once a great empire too before they collapsed. Yes, it could have been x was historically this way .. but is it sustainable? If you say no.. and to people who say, lets end it : No Because it was always that way.. then you basically want a collapse.
A room has a capacity of 100 people .. People flow in at a rate of 1 person/day. Illegally another 1 person/day enters ... once the room hits capacity after 50 days the legal tide is adjusted.. great system.. except there are a bunch of clowns who fight the enforcement to prevent the entry of that 1 illegal/day.. their sentiment : it was always that way bro .. what's your problem.. and so the flow continues unchecked.. criminals/murders/rapist as well as people who want to do good for themselves enter unchecked... and well, things get uncomfortable.. Should we change it now? NAH BRO .. WE ALWAYS LET ILLEGALS IN .. and well, you know how this story goes...
As for the measures to try to prevent illegals from entering and its association w/ profiling.. etc .. its funny how a couple a' thousand Americans get killed in a building by some whackos and we stand to allow all sorts of our freedoms to be infringed upon .. all sorts of discomfort and don't at all protest the profiling .. but let someone suggest .. god forbid you do a background check on people committing crimes... people living amongst others in apt. complexes, communities, and schools .. A simple verification they are legal .. and oh gawd . oh gawd the humanity !!!!!
You're drawing straws again user_id .. try again
yeahthatguy, you have proven to be a well educated person, but it appears that you have completely forgot to mention that this country has been at war and on peace keeping missions since 2001. this couldn't have an effect on the US debt levels, could it? obviously there is a cost associated with social services to the poor (whether they be or illegal or not), but we're spending billions every month to support our actions in the middle east with no end in sight.
i think you should go back to talking about illegals receiving in-state tuition as it pertains to CA and deal with your national debt concerns elsewhere, bro.
Again, you seem to be rewriting history. Italians had huge communities where Italian, not English, was spoken. Businesses that wanted their business would have to speak Italian.
Even today, you can hear Italian, Polish, etc in some of the old eastern ethnic communities. Have you ever traveled outside of the west coast?
You're not getting the point, old stock Americans forget how they got here, the vast majority of Americans have ancestors that came here illegally.
When you look at it historically, not much as changed, the only real difference is that the new immigrants aren't white and I think that increases the sort of "us/them" distinction that exists between old and new stock Americans.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Yes those communities still have their native laguages spoken in them. I get this. See there are Somali and Iraqi communities in the San Diego area and they have their stores and businesses in their own ethnic communities and yes, they speak their languages in them too. Same with Vietnamese etc. I do not need to go to the east coast to observe what you're talking about. However, at no point do these communities require their languages be used by everyone within 1500 miles of them. Nor are they demanding services normally only allowed to citizens. See, in addition to these communities we have both observed, there's another type of immigrant community. One which is not as benign as the Polish and Italian communities of the east coast or the Somali and Iraqi communities of the west coast. Or the Somali communities in Minneapolis. Please, come to Chula Vista and be honest about what you see.
yeahthatguy, you have proven to be a well educated person, but it appears that you have completely forgot to mention that this country has been at war and on peace keeping missions since 2001. this couldn't have an effect on the US debt levels, could it? obviously there is a cost associated with social services to the poor (whether they be or illegal or not), but we're spending billions every month to support our actions in the middle east with no end in sight.
i think you should go back to talking about illegals receiving in-state tuition as it pertains to CA and deal with your national debt concerns elsewhere, bro.
You have a debt problem... There are 50-100 things causing it.
Someone points out one of those things. You say, forget that.. what about the other. Doesn't make the problem stop being a problem. The national debt was referenced to reflect how little the country has .. to support such immigration ... Yes, illegal immigration costs the federal govt. as well.. User_id made a comment about the nation's historical immigration .. I made a reply stating how the nation's debt looks .. last i checked, immigration was a federal issue and not one pertaining to a state... So, i think i am quite on point w/ the references i made. thanks.
You make $10,000 a month .. I could care how you decide to **** your money + more away .. go shot $1,000 missiles in the floor for all i care.
But, if you claim after shooting off 20 rockets in the ground and are running a $10k debt every month, that you have enough to give handouts/opportunity to some illegal vs. your jobless and worn out citizens.. I think a person can logically say : yeah dude.. no you don't.
If you want talk about the incredible expenses from shooting rockets in the ground and potential 'peace' that can come of it .. Fine go ahead, but that has no bearing on the fact that you have tens of millions of Americans unemployed... on food stamps and w/o jobs and somehow feel you can allow uncontrolled immigration of (low skill labor) in your country and somehow not negatively impact the citizens of your country. The rich guy will tell you .. you can and it is actually good for the country that we allow this and this is most probably because his company makes hand over fist as a result.
The ignorant humanitarian will tell you to care for all equally but does not take note of limited resources and the limited money that can be committed to such a dream. Both will probably claim you a racist... claim you are a conservative wingnut when you point out the fundamental/practical flaws in their assertions .. Both will fail to see, charities have existing since the beginning of time and they are free to commit their $$$/resources to their cause of choice ... But they will see, that they should tax and force others to do so. The level of hypocrisy.. the lack of basic mathematical skills .. the lack of economic sense.. the ignorance is overshadowed by the emotional draw the world's harsh realities have for those w/ rose colored glasses. They cannot stand to see a soul 'suffer' ... and to feel that they have achieved that goal of changing the world.... they choose to help a small minority of people, pretend the rest of the world is not drowned in chaos&tragedy, and say all is good and well now that they 'made' a difference.
Meanwhile their government has to print trillions of dollars to cover the lavish foolishness these humanitarians have dreamed up which actually hurts millions more people than their silly practices help...the millions pushed into poverty ... the conflicts that it creates.. the millions that will die as a result ....
But no, from their lands.. all is well... They made a difference from their 'view'.. and if that helps them sleep at night and feel good .. so be it.. the casualties that result .. they are ignorant of it.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 06-09-2011 at 04:19 PM..
The problem is summed up easily. It's called cutting in line. Which most liberals have no problem with as long as it supports their agenda and feeds their base.
A room has a capacity of 100 people .. People flow in at a rate of 1 person/day. Illegally another 1 person/day enters ... once the room hits capacity after 50 days the legal tide is adjusted.. great system.. except there are a bunch of clowns who fight the enforcement to prevent the entry of that 1 illegal/day.. their sentiment : it was always that way bro .. what's your problem.. and so the flow continues unchecked..
To say it again, admissions are competitive so the best candidates are getting accepted, what California is doing in this case is just ignoring the federal immigration status when the illegal resident has attended California public schools. These kids should be legal, the only reason they aren't is because the federal immigration system is broken.
I have no idea why you are talking about the national debt, it has no relation to the comments you were replying to, totally different topic.
I do not need to go to the east coast to observe what you're talking about. However, at no point do these communities require their languages be used by everyone within 1500 miles of them.
But you do, we are talking about the past and the east-coast gives you some idea how immigrants, in particular European ones, lived in the past.
You don't seem to be getting the point, businesses and the government have always catered to the dominant ethnic groups. The groups you are mentioning are very small and just like the past, nobody caters to them. Look at this poster:
The problem is summed up easily. It's called cutting in line. Which most liberals have no problem with as long as it supports their agenda and feeds their base.
Hey, this liberal agrees with you but let's be fair, there are conservatives just like this too.
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