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No one thinks Romney did anything illegal, his refusal to release years of tax returns like all Presidential candidates have since his daddy released 12 years worth is just a handy club to whack him with. Romney apparently figures that riding out the embarrassment is a lessor evil than releasing tax returns showing he sheltered (legally) massive amounts of money.
Obama graduated Magna *** laude from Harvard. If that is not enough to settle his grades question, there ain't nothing else in the world that would convince the people that are upset a black man is in the White House.
Not worried about Romney as he is self destructing a bit faster than Obama.
Really, then why do so many Europeans PAY for operations out of Europe, even going to India for better care?
Oh, and how long does it take to get a hip or joint replacement in Europe? Not a couple weeks like here.
Do I like the idea of "free" health care? You bet until I realize it isn't free at all. Everyone pays for it. And as causal it is the middle class paying the bulk as they have the largest amount of money, as a group.
You couldn't be more wrong. I used to live in Europe (Ireland) and have experienced a wide range of healthcare issues and emergencies (along with my children's) and what you're writing is completely inaccurate. I've never heard of anyone leaving the country for an operation. I have even had to be subjected at one point to a battery of tests and I didn't have to wait any longer than I'd have to here in the Bay Area.
Dental care on the other hand... absolutely! I've heard that dental care is superior in Hungary, Austria, and I think Poland--cosmetic stuff is a lot more affordable and there are instances that I've heard of some Europeans doing it this way, but medical care...no, you have it wrong. Is it perfect? Heck no...but it sure was nice paying 20 euro for a visit.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
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What about Obama's writings?
Interesting, so now on top of Obama being a Kenyan Indonesian and had bad grades but the CIA covered it up so he would be President someday, now he has suspect writings? Wha.. he didn't like Charles Dickens?
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
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Originally Posted by .highnlite
Europe has , the best healthcare systems in the world, the most satisfied and happy citizenry, what is not to like?
Sorry, this a generalization: I doubt that Romania and Bulgaria have a better healthcare than Massachussets and Minnesota... as well as happier citizenry.
No it isn't a generalization, it may have some other label applied to it, but, perhaps I would have been more accurate if I had inserted "has" some of "the best. The point being that the best healthcare systems in the world are found in Europe and the US ranks well out of the top ten.
You couldn't be more wrong. I used to live in Europe (Ireland) and have experienced a wide range of healthcare issues and emergencies (along with my children's) and what you're writing is completely inaccurate. I've never heard of anyone leaving the country for an operation. I have even had to be subjected at one point to a battery of tests and I didn't have to wait any longer than I'd have to here in the Bay Area.
Dental care on the other hand... absolutely! I've heard that dental care is superior in Hungary, Austria, and I think Poland--cosmetic stuff is a lot more affordable and there are instances that I've heard of some Europeans doing it this way, but medical care...no, you have it wrong. Is it perfect? Heck no...but it sure was nice paying 20 euro for a visit.
From a Nurse in the UK, today.
"Not that this is relevant but, in an attempt to save money, when they got in power the Conservative part of our Coalition Government over here took a slash and burn approach to our already overstretched NHS (and other areas) with the result that Nurses like me are struggling even more and the most needy have been hit the hardest. "
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
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Originally Posted by expatCA
From a Nurse in the UK, today.
"Not that this is relevant but, in an attempt to save money, when they got in power the Conservative part of our Coalition Government over here took a slash and burn approach to our already overstretched NHS (and other areas) with the result that Nurses like me are struggling even more and the most needy have been hit the hardest. "
You can find a complainer anywhere and at any time. The fact is, Socialized healthcare works better than our for profit system,
Quote:
Despite the claim by many in the U.S. health policy community that international comparison is not useful because of the uniqueness of the United States, the rankings have figured prominently in many arenas. It is hard to ignore that in 2006, the United States was number 1 in terms of health care spending per capita but ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy.3 These facts have fueled a question now being discussed in academic circles, as well as by government and the public: Why do we spend so much to get so little?
"Not that this is relevant but, in an attempt to save money, when they got in power the Conservative part of our Coalition Government over here took a slash and burn approach to our already overstretched NHS (and other areas) with the result that Nurses like me are struggling even more and the most needy have been hit the hardest. "
And so you take one nurse's opinion and it represent the way ALL Europeans feel about "socialized medicine"?
I could show you an entire thread on this very site in the World/UK forum where the majority of folk are praising the NHS. Nobody has ever stated that it's perfect..of course there are problems that always need sorting out, but let me tell you, they'd not trade it for what we have.
I won't speak for the NHS however,since the Republic of Ireland has it's own system, BUT most Europeans scratch their heads and would swear that they'd much prefer their own system if they were ever faced with a choice. They often can't understand that citizens of this wealthy country are actually losing their homes, and entire savings trying to pay for healthcare on their own. People w/o insurance would often prefer to DIE rather than subject their family's life savings for a procedure or chemo.
I have supposedly "good" insurance yet it's always a complete mystery to even the smartest, most detail oriented people can't figure out why one visit, lab work, or anything else with the doctor is a completely different price every time. It's shameful how ripped off and confused the public is about their medical care. Sometime my prescription cost 5 bucks, sometimes it's 20...this is after our entire deductible has been met. These insurance companies know that nobody wants to waste hours/days on the phone to even fight it or have to offer answers. The whole system has been rigged to confuse, intimidate, and cause us to question our "care".
Trust me...there are far more horror stories about the American non system of medical care. Everyone I've ever spoken with has a negative story to tell about healthcare fiasco we live and die with, including my own...
I get a kick out of all of these people who can quote disgruntled people in national healthcare systems. I've lived overseas for 9 years, most of it in Europe. I spend my summers working from Europe. I don't meet anyone dissatisfied with their healthcare. Doesn't mean nobody has anything to complain about, but they definitely would not think the solution to any their problems is to do away with free (or mostly free) healthcare. People quoting others from Canada, UK, or whatever are smoking crack. Really, trying to paint the national healthcare plans in Europe as if they are bad is a total farce. It's not the least bit credible. I'm not saying this because I looked at a bunch of stats or heard a quote. I've spent a good amount of time there and know better. You can find someone who will provide a quote for anything you want. I bet I can find someone who has met those Lemurian beings living inside of MT. Shasta and is willing to provide a quote about it. Quoting disgruntled people means nothing. Nothing can please 100% of the population. Nothing.
I'm 100% for a national healthcare but don't like ObamaCare for 2 reasons:
1. It doesn't have a public option. A national healthcare plan without a public option can't be called a healthcare plan, it's just healthcare reform. Not sure we are going to get much bang for the buck. ObamaCare should be called ObamaReform.
2. I don't like how the costs are being downplayed and hidden with funny math. I fear we will get most of the costs of a real healthcare plan without realizing the benefits of a real healthcare plan. National healthcare is expensive. Everyone needs to know that and everyone needs to be willing to pay for it. If anyone out there, no matter what their income level, thinks a real healthcare plan can be paid for by everyone except them....then they are also smoking crack. I'll ask them to live in Europe for a while and report back to me with how many people escape the tax burden there.
[quote=.highnlite;25580061]You can find a complainer anywhere and at any time. The fact is, Socialized healthcare works better than our for profit system,
Quote:
Despite the claim by many in the U.S. health policy community that international comparison is not useful because of the uniqueness of the United States, the rankings have figured prominently in many arenas. It is hard to ignore that in 2006, the United States was number 1 in terms of health care spending per capita but ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy.3 These facts have fueled a question now being discussed in academic circles, as well as by government and the public: Why do we spend so much to get so little?
These stats are appalling, how anyone can defend the US healthcare system with stats like this beggars belief.[/quote
Your assertions are scattered, to the point of irrelevancy.
Frankly, I expect better from your grandiose soapbox.
A couple of observations though...
If you take away freedom to error in many of life's choices, the "ratings" above would increase... Yeah..., your "cherry picked" "facts" have little to do with the nebulous term "health care"... No guns, no sharp sticks, no cars, no big rocks, no steps, no dangerous toys or personal endeavors, mandatory/compulsory prenatal/infant care (think "Lebensborn"), and no bears (horrible menaces they are), and all those numbers above would drastically improve. I know, I know, freedom...
Darnit there it is... Freedom is a b-tch... Some of us still value it though. Many, I know, are scared of it... Which, IMO, is one of the reasons why all Democracies eventually fail... Off topic though...
In deference to Socialism (you started it), its great, as long as your not sick. If your sick, really sick, your expensive to the system, which is why those with high value (to their countryman or others), come here for top level medical care (although, I will admit, there are islands of "fee for service" medical care cropping up in other medically freer countries than our own)...
"Herd management", which is what Socialized medicine really is, does not care for those who can not give back to the government. In that system, infant, child and young adult care is of utmost concern...
Ewwww, hmmmm... can anyone say SCHIP, but for some reason chronic illness funding is starting to be capitated.... think chronic dialysis. I suggest anyone ask a Nephrologist if the care of chronic dialysis patients is going to get better under the socialized system of capitation (...already happening folks)
I think most who are involved in health care know where "our system" is going... there's just too much money in it for it to go elsewhere...
To try to say that it will be better, for most individuals though, is ignorant
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