4AM last call for alcohol in California? (Laguna Niguel, Laguna: most dangerous, safest)

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque

Don't you consider people who are depressed and seeking to medicate themselves as "not haves"?

Seems you consider most people who enjoy being out at bars til 4 AM as losers, and that's a derogatory statement clearly. Not all bars are the same, either. Some are upscale, some dives, some country, and many other types of bars.

It's pretty clear that you do as you consider them all the same. That is mostly full of losers seeking to self-medicate. Except you seemingly exempt your own bar in your own house for some reason.

I never said those people were "not haves", they could be rich as heck, and still be a loser, medicating themselves with whisky.

I do think people who have to stay out until 4am to get drunk, and medicate themselves are losers. Denying you have problems, and masking them with intoxication is the very definition of someone who has already lost.

I never get drunk at home, and I'm not medicating anything. I'm safe, I'm keeping others safe, and even if I did have too much to drink, I can just lay right there in the couch and never have to risk my own, or anyone's life ever. Big difference.

[Kafkaesque]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

I never said those people were "not haves", they could be rich as heck, and still be a loser, medicating themselves with whisky.

I do think people who have to stay out until 4am to get drunk, and medicate themselves are losers. Denying you have problems, and masking them with intoxication is the very definition of someone who has already lost.

I never get drunk at home, and I'm not medicating anything. I'm safe, I'm keeping others safe, and even if I did have too much to drink, I can just lay right there in the couch and never have to risk my own, or anyone's life ever. Big difference.

I consider the sad sack self-medicating in a bar as a "not-have", it's not just a dollars and cents issue to me. They would appear to need counseling and AA if they are as you describe. They certainly would seem to be missing some joie de vivre in their life.

On the other hand I was young once and would happily stay out to closing time, and then drive people home as the designated driver.

Anyone in a bar shouldn't be risking anyone either. Call a cab. And the bartender should be cutting people off and calling cabs for them due to liability issues.

I could be unfair and consider anyone who drinks a loser also, but I won't do that.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque

Anyone in a bar shouldn't be risking anyone either. Call a cab. And the bartender should be cutting people off and calling cabs for them due to liability issues.

Yes. Also people shouldn't steal money left on a table meant for a server, and people shouldn't steal stuff from homes with unlocked doors.

[Kafkaesque]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Yes. Also people shouldn't steal money left on a table meant for a server, and people shouldn't steal stuff from homes with unlocked doors.

People are not perfect, never claimed they were. Life is about is about managing risks.

A smart bartender is a valuable employee and can save the business money in insurance costs and customers lives.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque

Life is about is about managing risks.

Exactly.

If I saw a guy overwhelmed by jihadi fervor, and swearing to target every soul in Christendom in the name of Mohammad, I'm not going to put a pipe bomb in his hand.

[Kafkaesque]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Exactly.

If I saw a guy overwhelmed by jihadi fervor, and swearing to target every soul in Christendom in the name of Mohammad, I'm not going to put a pipe bomb in his hand.

Certainly comparing a potential alcoholic to a jihadist is derogatory in and of itself.

I believe that an alcoholic presents the same risk at 2AM as he does at 4AM, and should have been cut off long before either time comes in most cases. Bartenders need adequate training to identify alcoholics and cut them off, so such risk is not presented to the general public.

But not everyone in a bar is a sad sack or "have not" and all bars are not the same.

Alcohol is legal by constitutional amendment, so a one size fits all ban proscription will not work either. The drunks can always drink at home until they die of cirrhosis of the liver if they so choose.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque

The drunks can always drink at home until they die of cirrhosis of the liver if they so choose.

That's my preference.

[Kafkaesque]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

That's my preference.

I already knew that from your prior posts.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

I guess we can assume nullgeo just made that up since he's not answering.

Or we might guess he went off to be otherwise involved in life ... in fact, I am just taking a break and thought I'd check the nut house here for a moment ... and then back out in the world again.

My "have not's" / "not haves" is a reference to tacit meanings in your posts ... not a reference to any specific comment. And who am I to interpret your meanings? Just one of the many people reading what you write who are intelligent enough to see that all of your posts have a particular brand of arrogance toward others ... and to note that you convey pretty clearly that you consider a lot of pretty damn decent housing, neighborhoods, professions, possessions beneath your standards. If you don't know how you appear to others, it's not pleasant. Now you say you don't care? Then why protest so? Be proud of your self-perceived superiority.

But back to drinking: I was annihilated by a drunk driver as I rode my bicycle on a pastoral country island road in mid-summer afternoon once. Not another vehicle in sight and the guy crossed lanes and nailed me ... never saw me. No 4am closing time required. I was basically shovelled up off the chip-seal by local volunteer firefighters and carted off to the emergency room for hours of surgeries. Third time in my life, after twice in Vietnam, my face was filleted open like a fish for dinner. Hundreds of stitches and permanent damages. When it's your day it's your day.

People have been getting tipsy and drunk on fermented whatevers since we were walking on all fours and swinging from branches. I don't like to drink anymore personally but other people do, obviously. Lots of animals in the animal kingdom like fermented berries and other similar treats as well. I suppose they are all a**holes in your opinion. To most of us it's just part of life going about its mysterious business. Indifferent to time of openings and closings.

[MediaArtist]

If you think allowing drunkards another 2 hours in the evening/early morning to swish down a few more brews isn't exacerbating the problem of public drunkenness, you're purposefully being blind. Increasing last call to 4am has absolutely no benefits for society.