Gov Brown Signs $15 CA min wage law RIP California Businesses (Industry: how much, income)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by CCbaxter

So conversely if we lowered the minimum wage to say, one dollar an hour, business would be booming? We'd all be living in the lap of luxury.

Why stop there? Why not have workers volunteer to work free for the business owners' profit orgy? Just think of how the American dream would lavishly be realized then for the few!

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by jm1982

You're talking about people that have built small businesses which will be hurt by this law.

He doesn't care about that.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

He doesn't care about that.

Good morning RMESMH. I spent my working years as a small (print)shop owner. Blue-collar, school drop out. Competing with other small businesses to stay afloat and relevant in the marketplace I operated in. I'm pretty sure you haven't the slightest notion what I am about and what I care about.

[O.A.Bachlow]

Give more money to the working poor and they will spend more. Money has to be current...currency like the current of a river must be flowing or it is stale and useless...static stored cash has never been of any benefit to society at large. You can't run a business by paying those who operate your business earning less than a living wage. If you have slaves - you have to sustain and take care of your slaves and their families...it is your duty as a master in business. You want to be successful and have loyal employees - You have to be loyal to them...it is a two way street...It is called GOOD business.

[GatsbyGatz]

Originally Posted by O.A.Bachlow

Give more money to the working poor and they will spend more. Money has to be current...currency like the current of a river must be flowing or it is stale and useless...static stored cash has never been of any benefit to society at large. You can't run a business by paying those who operate your business earning less than a living wage. If you have slaves - you have to sustain and take care of your slaves and their families...it is your duty as a master in business. You want to be successful and have loyal employees - You have to be loyal to them...it is a two way street...It is called GOOD business.

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that businesses won't just raise prices alongside the new wages. But inflation is always occurring. Employers are not just going to suffer lost capital due to the rise in wages--they pass the burden onto the consumers through higher prices and also onto their staff, by downsizing and less hiring.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by jm1982

"It's still far too early to tell if a $15 minimum wage is bad news for California's economy, but the data would appear to suggest that there are considerably more paths to disappointment than success. This deal could wind up backfiring badly on California-based businesses and the states' minimum-wage workers"


8 Ways California's Deal to Raise the Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour Could Backfire -- The Motley Fool

8 ways this could backfire listed in that article.

It's not about being "afraid to rise to a manageable challenge" Mr. Macho Man
You're talking about people that have built small businesses which will be hurt by this law.

What state do you live in anyways?

I'll add one more: no more tipping from customers. I know there are many waiters that make much more than $15 an hour during busy shifts. But if their customer knows they make that much money, what would be the incentive to tip? I know I'd stop tipping.

I'd also demand MUCH more competence from minimum wage workers. Now, I might pawn it off on the fact they "only make $8 an hour". But if you're making double that, you BET I'm going to hold your feet to the fire. Checking out your smart phone instead of taking care of customers? I'll complain to management. Screw up my order? I'll complain to management.

You want to get paid like the big boys, you better act like the big boys.

[CCbaxter]

Originally Posted by GatsbyGatz

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that businesses won't just raise prices alongside the new wages. But inflation is always occurring. Employers are not just going to suffer lost capital due to the rise in wages--they pass the burden onto the consumers through higher prices and also onto their staff, by downsizing and less hiring.

And your entire argument is that these businesses exist in a vacuum. American companies are sitting on over 1 TRILLION in cash reserves. So, if one company raises prices or cuts service, another company may use a different model, maybe spend some of that cash on R&D and attract more customers than the other company whose unimaginative response was to raise prices and/or cut service. This is truly the invisible hand of the marketplace that righties like to think cures all ills. But I guess not in this case.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Now jm, you're just flat out making things up. I didn't say business owners are wussies for moving from where "they can't afford to do business". I said, "where they have a thriving business with market demand that experiences a surmountable competitive challenge". And yeah, under those conditions any businessman who is afraid to rise to a manageable challenge is a wuss. You bet I'm serious. And I've been a small business owner. Betting you haven't, eh? Least not for long if you ever were.

Highly paid experts been wrong in the past? Sure. Lotsa times. I haven't been relying on reports from highly paid prognosticators here though. I've been relying on clear evidence from markets all around the world. I haven't quoted expert opinions. I've reported factual statistics.

And, finally, I have not presented any "fantasy of how great thngs are going to be under $15 minimum wage". I've simply demonstrated that your, and others', fearful prognostications are not founded in logic or reality as you present them. There are certainly unknowns in how this will play out. But your laments don't "prove" your case for panic and demise.

Having the government set wages is not even close to surmountable, or a competitive challenge. It sets a precedent, and when inflation sets in, the government can (and will) just raise the MW again. Because it's not based on economics, and is based on emotion and vote seeking, they have no qualms about raising it higher and higher and higher. And because they have the weight and might of the government behind them, they can get away with it.

What business can protect themselves from a self-serving, over-reaching government?

[ringwise]

Everyone is conveniently ignoring the elephant in the room. Union wages are tied to minimum wage. Raise MW, and you raise union wages. Which becomes a viscous cycle of paybacks.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Good morning RMESMH. I spent my working years as a small (print)shop owner. Blue-collar, school drop out. Competing with other small businesses to stay afloat and relevant in the marketplace I operated in. I'm pretty sure you haven't the slightest notion what I am about and what I care about.

If you cared, and in addition cared about the customer who will have to pay more, you wouldn't be taking the position you are on this matter.