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Old 05-14-2016, 09:03 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,013,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
How bizarre that people would want to preserve what they invested their lives and happiness in, eh? Totally bizarre.
Funny how the rest of the city wants to not have increased rents, a tighter housing market, loss of jobs, new development such as hospitals, schools, parks and affordable housing. There is such a thing as bad planning, ya know.
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Old 05-14-2016, 09:33 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,680,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
I have read people on the SF forum touting that there are at least 30% of property owners not renting due to the oppressive laws that give renters more rights than the property owners. Essentially there are empty properties all over SF. Do you not see how this contributes to price increases for those looking to buy or rent?
Yes... the supply is artificially limited due to perceived or actually imposed government requirements...

I know of 2 units in a 3 unit building that have been vacant for sometime... the elderly owner had it with renters and regulation... she made the decision to remove her units after having to evict the last tenant in each unit... she said the no amount of money is worth living in fear and anxiety

Also, when something is limited for whatever reason it can create demand/exclusivity and prices often adjust in response.

Food, Shelter, Clothing are the essentials of life... at least this is what I was taught... no mention of medical care back then.

As a rule... only Shelter seems to be scrutinized when it comes to market forces.

Can't remember the last time I heard anyone addressing the cost of clothes and people may complain about the high cost of a food item but that is as far as it goes.

Shelter is different... the government officials in my city had no compunction to impose a mandatory rent increase moratorium in addition to the existing rent control... go figure

Artificial constraints often have the opposite effect over time.

Read a study about a gasoline shortage after a natural disaster... the governor stepped in to impose price gouging laws... the price of a gallon of gas had went up 5 times... hearing of the severe gas shortage entrepreneurs responded by flying in gasoline by air... very expenses and risky... why would they do this??? because at 5 times the price people were willing to take on the risk and expense in hopes of making a profit.

Why don't we limit what a person can charge for his or her labor? Does anyone need to received a multimillion dollar contract in professional sports?

Having a good to offer is the result of a person's labor, capital, investment, risk taking, etc.

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 05-14-2016 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 05-14-2016, 09:54 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,739 posts, read 16,356,570 times
Reputation: 19831
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
There is such a thing as bad planning, ya know.
I could not agree more. Human history is an infinite pageant of bad planning. Why one neighborhood or group of people should accept paying the freight for a temporary, at best, fix, for a bunch of others to ride the wave in on, is a head scratcher.

So, family pools a few bucks for a Lotto ticket and wins a big jackpot. Bunch of other folks start lining up outside the family's door saying they wanted to win and why should the winners get all the dough. You say ....
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Old 05-14-2016, 09:59 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,680,034 times
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^^^ Great example

It's like property taxes...

I pay the highest property tax for the oldest and smallest home in my neighborhood... my neighbors are mostly retired and most in the their 80's and 90's with 3 separate households having one member 100 or more.

These seasoned citizens are what makes the neighborhood desirable... they made the sacrifices and long ago paid the construction bonds for infrastructure I enjoy simply by buying in.

My elderly sellers paid $1200 the year I bought and the tax immediately went to $8800

Rather than have contempt for them or bemoan my situation I fully intend in 30 of 40 years to be in the same situation with the lower property tax.

I went in eyes wide open and decided accordingly...
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:09 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,013,648 times
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But it's not just newcomers that are trying to storm the gates. There are others who've lived in LA for a long time that also oppose a lot of the harsh NIMBYism because it affects them too. Younger native residents who can't all inherit homes looking for work in LA have to deal with higher unemployment, a disconnect between housing costs and wages, and on top of that restriction such as this Neighborhood Integrity Initiative that is supposed to halt major development construction that could cost the city 300k+ jobs. LA's economic boom was partly dependent on new construction projects. We already have a homeless problem here, why compound it?
So this ballot box planning will cost the city billions of dollars in jobs, sending jobs elsewhere when we just came out of a big unemployment stint, on top of that increase the cost of housing due to an even more limited supply. And all you guys can say is tough luck? Why should the city remain hostage to growth because of out of control NIMBYism?
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:18 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,680,034 times
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Ultimately it is the people that decide under the framework of the Constitution.

I have friends that live in Texas, built a home, started a ranch and no permits required... this is outside Tyler TX...

Coming from the SF Bay Area it was quite a shock and energizing... TX allowed him to live his dream.

The proceeds from selling his 1000 square foot wartime tact home in San Leandro CA was enough to parlay into a 200 acre parcel of raw land... lived in a camper for two years, built a barn and then a beautiful home over the course of 15 years.

What I am saying is plenty of youth leave for greener pastures without looking back.

He brought his Texas born and raised wife to California... she had never been... showed her the home where he grew up in Hayward and the home he owned in San Leandro... she just shook her head at the prices and simply couldn't understand living somewhere where you need a permit to put a new roof on your home or replace windows on a half million dollar shack and your neighbor's bathroom window is 8 feet away from yours.

Over the last 15 years, he has brought out his parents and brothers to Texas and they love it.
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:32 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,013,648 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Ultimately it is the people that decide under the framework of the Constitution.

I have friends that live in Texas, built a home, started a ranch and no permits required... this is outside Tyler TX...

Coming from the SF Bay Area it was quite a shock and energizing... TX allowed him to live his dream.

The proceeds from selling his 1000 square foot wartime tact home in San Leandro CA was enough to parlay into a 200 acre parcel of raw land... lived in a camper for two years, built a barn and then a beautiful home over the course of 15 years.

What I am saying is plenty of youth leave for greener pastures without looking back.

He brought his Texas born and raised wife to California... she had never been... showed her the home where he grew up in Hayward and the home he owned in San Leandro... she just shook her head at the prices and simply couldn't understand living somewhere where you need a permit to put a new roof on your home or replace windows on a half million dollar shack and your neighbor's bathroom window is 8 feet away from yours.

Over the last 15 years, he has brought out his parents and brothers to Texas and they love it.
Woah, wait a minute. So you're saying that the solution to the major impact this could have on the city is to simply move? Never mind that it might slow LA's economy to a halt? This after we just got out of a recession? It would increase homelessness and cause rents to spike all over. Not only that but increase LA's dependence on the old suburban sprawl model which make for longer commutes as people choose housing way out and commute in for work. This will also cause increased smog and all sort of environmental impacts.

There are already a ton of groups, all LA based opposing this measure. From homeless shelters, to developers, to city council members, unions, chamber of commerce, non-profit orgs, local political parties, preservation groups, etc. A big diverse group with competing interests even that see this as a bad thing.
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:56 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,680,034 times
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I'm saying sometimes a change of scenery brings opportunity.

We are not tied down to one area... the United States is vast... just look at the Detroit Metro where half the population left and homes can be had for a song.

I bought my home in Oakland, the Detroit of the West, at a time when vacant homes littered many neighborhoods.

It was very much against conventional wisdom and so many told me what a mistake it was.

It was the best financial decision of my life...'

Real Estate is always cyclical... always will be. Everything has environmental impact... nothing new here and speaking of that... what is the limit to growth... historically it has been water and food...

I scanned the MLS listings looking for the least expensive Bay Area homes... every community has a least expensive home...

Soon found I was priced out of the "Good" communities... I was 22 and a new college grad and was able to buy my home in Oakland for what a down payment would have been in a "Good" community.

Fast forward and Oakland is one of the hottest markets in the country... kids and grandkids of those that left in the 1960's are coming back and calling Oakland home much to the dismay of their elders.

Many communities are becoming one big HOA... if that is what you like... more power to you and if the residents desire that level of oversight... who am I to say otherwise since you won't find me there?
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:54 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,739 posts, read 16,356,570 times
Reputation: 19831
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Woah, wait a minute. So you're saying that the solution to the major impact this could have on the city is to simply move?
Whoa wait a minute so you're saying you get to take a share of the family's Lotto winnings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Never mind that it might slow LA's economy to a halt? This after we just got out of a recession? It would increase homelessness and cause rents to spike all over. Not only that but increase LA's dependence on the old suburban sprawl model which make for longer commutes as people choose housing way out and commute in for work. This will also cause increased smog and all sort of environmental impacts.
Lol. A bit dramatic, don't you think?

Look, LA isn't the only place to move in the country. And it's not about to collapse if it doesn't accommodate every new development conceivable.

If a person wants to make LA their home but can't, they don't die, you know. There's nothing new about this in human hostory. In any natural history either. Whether animals or men, if there isn't an opportunity to thrive one place it's time to move on. Migrate. Start a new pack / herd with a new territory. Find a new set of boundary stumps and rocks to pee on and mark.

So you think that Aspen, CO needs to create incentives for new manufacturing businesses, and rezone open space for some high-density developments so 100,000 new blue-collar middle class can enjoy the same views, ambiance, and skiing as the wealthy who dominate there now have for their pleasure?

How about Monaco? The French Riviera?
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Old 05-14-2016, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,262,177 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
He brought his Texas born and raised wife to California... she had never been... showed her the home where he grew up in Hayward and the home he owned in San Leandro... she just shook her head at the prices and simply couldn't understand living somewhere where you need a permit to put a new roof on your home or replace windows on a half million dollar shack and your neighbor's bathroom window is 8 feet away from yours.

Over the last 15 years, he has brought out his parents and brothers to Texas and they love it.
And his Texas born and raised wife is accurate in her thinking. I was not born there but I was raised in the 4th largest city in the US there and the things I have learned during my time here has me shaking my head as well. Why would any state have such greedy and glutenous laws that oppress property owners? Why do Californians put up with it? Do they not know any better?

And before anyone comes in here foaming and ranting that Texas has no regulations...I say do some research and look up deed restrictions.
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