People are not leaving CA due to taxes and regulation. (San Marino: real estate market, brokers)

[Finper]

When I was in Texas l was shocked at how well maintained and smooth the fwys are. I wonder what they're doing right??Perhaps there not crushed by unions...

[DenaDude]

Originally Posted by Finper

When I was in Texas l was shocked at how well maintained and smooth the fwys are. I wonder what they're doing right??Perhaps there not crushed by unions...

What they're doing right is building them recently vs fifty years ago. And they have significantly more toll roads.


Regardless, I can't tell the difference between the freeways in Dallas and OC.

[DenaDude]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

That's my point, you're actually proving me right.

Thanks!

Thanks for agreeing with my point. I'm glad you were able to see reason.

[momomanno]

Originally Posted by DenaDude

Why don't you go find a handy graph that shows historical median income compared to median home price for the past 20 years.

If income is lagging behind home prices, then the next question should be why. Let's assume that's true for the sake of argument. Then usually one of two things occurs:

1) People start building new construction until prices level out.
2) Businesses raise salaries to compensate regionally. (This happens in places like NYC, for example.)

But, supposedly (if you are correct), this does not happen in California. So the next question is why. The only reasons would be government-related. For example, restrictions on building or huge amounts of regulations that make building a practical impossibility. That's not just something that randomly occurred, is the point. Or it could be due to businesses leaving due to, for example, high taxes, and thus not caring enough to stay and pay Californians higher wages.

Lastly, it could be a reflection of California's liberal wealth inequality. Liberals talk a lot about wealth inequality, but the reality is they are the ones most guilty of this. So places like San Francisco and NYC have severe zoning restrictions (or, in NYC, rent control) which artificially limit housing availability, which drives prices upwards, which leaves only housing for the ultra-rich. So liberal tech companies like Google, which don't really produce anything (it's an entire company built on a search algorithm, if you're going to be honest) have millionaire employees, there's no middle class, and there's a small lower class that services the liberal elite class. Then the rest flee to Texas.

[Finper]

ok I was in Austin, Waco and San Antonio not Dallas. I was especially impressed with Austin roads. I did see a toll road there so maybe that's it.... and a better govt

[breeze823]

we left, not because we couldn't afford it. my husband did finance for a large rv dealership...rv business was rockin' then, the recession was years from hitting...i was a sahm...i had been on him about leaving ca for a while (we are both native san diegans and all our family was/is also there) but i wanted to raise my kids somewhere slower paced, small town, seasons...and yes, tired of all the illegals and run down areas that used to be nice. my kids could never go to the schools i went to now. and i know many people who have left or are wanting out, nothing to do with finances...

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by momomanno

If income is lagging behind home prices, then the next question should be why. Let's assume that's true for the sake of argument. Then usually one of two things occurs:

1) People start building new construction until prices level out.
2) Businesses raise salaries to compensate regionally. (This happens in places like NYC, for example.)

But, supposedly (if you are correct), this does not happen in California. So the next question is why. The only reasons would be government-related. For example, restrictions on building or huge amounts of regulations that make building a practical impossibility. That's not just something that randomly occurred, is the point. Or it could be due to businesses leaving due to, for example, high taxes, and thus not caring enough to stay and pay Californians higher wages.

Lastly, it could be a reflection of California's liberal wealth inequality. Liberals talk a lot about wealth inequality, but the reality is they are the ones most guilty of this. So places like San Francisco and NYC have severe zoning restrictions (or, in NYC, rent control) which artificially limit housing availability, which drives prices upwards, which leaves only housing for the ultra-rich. So liberal tech companies like Google, which don't really produce anything (it's an entire company built on a search algorithm, if you're going to be honest) have millionaire employees, there's no middle class, and there's a small lower class that services the liberal elite class. Then the rest flee to Texas.

DenaDude, what say you to this?

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by Lockdev

Well, here's a high earner leaving due to high taxes and costs, so they're not all "people who cannot afford it".

I want to retire early and that is not going to be possible in California. I've seen my mom slave away here, and she's pushing 60. Her dream was to buy a home but as prices(and rents) keep increasing, that dream is slipping further and further away for her. Retirement is also nowhere in sight.

My salary is well into the 6 figures, and while I could afford a house in the Bay Area, it would be a foolish and stupid move to do so. Aside from the big cities, what other part of the country forces you to be house poor while making $150k/year and buying a 2 bedroom house?

Add that on top of the taxes and traffic, and there's nothing here that justifies staying.

This area belongs to wealthy immigrants(Tulemutt) now. Nothing wrong with that. Some of us are just tired of living in what feels like an overpriced foreign country. I just want to return to the actual United States and be able to retire by 50.

Last I checked CA was in the United States. I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you descended from Native Americans? If not, you're as welcome here as anyone else. We are a nation of immigrants!

Also, I'm pretty sure Tulemutt is not wealthy...and I don't think he is an immigrant (and if he was...why would that be a problem again?).

I'll also add that you have a strange view of the world - and the "expectation" you have to retire early is pretty ridiculous.


The housing situation in the Bay Area is utter insanity, and I'm in full agreement there. It's a SERIOUS problem.

[DenaDude]

Originally Posted by momomanno

If income is lagging behind home prices, then the next question should be why. Let's assume that's true for the sake of argument. Then usually one of two things occurs:

1) People start building new construction until prices level out.
2) Businesses raise salaries to compensate regionally. (This happens in places like NYC, for example.)

But, supposedly (if you are correct), this does not happen in California. So the next question is why. The only reasons would be government-related. For example, restrictions on building or huge amounts of regulations that make building a practical impossibility. That's not just something that randomly occurred, is the point. Or it could be due to businesses leaving due to, for example, high taxes, and thus not caring enough to stay and pay Californians higher wages.

Lastly, it could be a reflection of California's liberal wealth inequality. Liberals talk a lot about wealth inequality, but the reality is they are the ones most guilty of this. So places like San Francisco and NYC have severe zoning restrictions (or, in NYC, rent control) which artificially limit housing availability, which drives prices upwards, which leaves only housing for the ultra-rich. So liberal tech companies like Google, which don't really produce anything (it's an entire company built on a search algorithm, if you're going to be honest) have millionaire employees, there's no middle class, and there's a small lower class that services the liberal elite class. Then the rest flee to Texas.

Your hypothesis only accounts for people that live (and work) in the area buying homes. This is not the case for prime areas of LA/OC/SF. It's an international market.

Let's take a look at home prices in San Marino or Arcadia.


Median HH income ~ $80,000



Median HH income ~ $130,000

These two areas have jumped about 40% above their PREVIOUS peaks in 2006-2007. There's no land left to develop and San Marino doesn't even allow multifamily so for the most part the housing supply is generally static.

Wages are in complete disconnect in an area like this where foreign wealth is pouring in and the buyers are paying all cash.


Please explain to me how Google or other "liberal tech companies" have anything to do with this.

[momomanno]

Originally Posted by DenaDude

Let's take a look at home prices in San Marino or Arcadia.

Sure. So I looked up San Marino and the population is essentially level. What's your argument here, that the "poor" of San Marino fled California? What poor? San Marino is rich. Your own statistics say that the median household income is $130K, which places it well above average. Moreover, your claim of "foreigners" driving up the market is irrelevant, since "foreigners" buy top-end real estate all over the place, but supposedly it only impacts California? Sorry, don't buy it, try again.