Covered California Rate Increase 12.5% for 2018 (Santa Barbara: new home, quality of life, lawsuits)

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

That's because he's cost sharing with everyone else paying the insurance company premiums. How much money do you think he has personally given his insurance company? Less than the cost of a decent hip replacement? I'd bet so.

Duh. That's how insurance works.

There's a reason why large entities like Costco or Fidelity or Microsoft get a group rate. People pay into the pool, and the cost are cheaper because there's an assumption that not everyone is going to get a "hip replacement" done. That's why insurance companies charge more money to people who are 350 pounds, don't exercise, and have high blood pressure.

Also, it's considered part of the employees compensation package, so employees are accepting this coverage as part of a PRIVATE market negotiation to be an employee, or not. Completely voluntary.

Originally Posted by TheFlats

It's a moral issue, not an economic one.

How can it not be an economic issue when you're forcing people to redistribute THEIR MONEY to pay for others?

You're right though, it's a moral issue as well, and the entire "health care is a right" movement is morally bankrupt because they want to steal other people's money using the government's gun to pay their way. Completely immoral and evil.

It's easy for you to say "blah blah rich people will pay more than their share, I don't care" because you aren't rich. It's not your money. Who is being morally bankrupt here?

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

You simply don't fully understand the concept of economic scarcity and its implications (and that's okay, a lot of people do not).

Please don't be condescending. Just come out and admit it when you don't agree with someone.

What you call "survival of the fittest" is actually something well described by economics for over 3 centuries.

And it DOESN'T apply to health care. I'm not going to explain my position to you again. Scroll back on this thread (or the other one you've started on this topic, one of which was moved to the Politics forum).

Lots of people say "Healthcare" is a right. But people who say that usually don't understand what that implies. They think by saying "It's a right" and it magically happens.

No, they don't. That's what you say about them to defend your arguments.

How do you fund it?

Get rid of the insurance companies. "Oh, no!" You cry, "that might interfere with the industry profits."

Originally Posted by

What I've described above is what every single civil administrator, local politician, treasurer, etc has to consider when someone says "healthcare is a right".

I suggest you go through the same exercise in your head, and then come back to this thread and describe how you would make "health care a right".

Tell this doctor that health care wasn't a right for this dead baby....better yet, tell the father, after his baby had an asthma attack while en route to a hospital that would not turn them away.

Americans have been fighting over government's role in medical care for decades. That fight will continue - LA Times

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Ugggh. A lot of blah blah blah to say that if we treat healthcare as an American right that we as Americans have to pay for it. And the people paying more than their "fair share" will be the wealthy and the healthy. I'm pretty sure people understand this concept, they're not stupid. It's a moral issue, not an economic one. We can afford it as a nation.

Exactly.

"It’s a question I encounter frequently when I discuss healthcare with conservatives, particularly after I note that I have a chronic and costly preexisting condition, Type 1 diabetes.

“Why should I pay for your healthcare?” they ask."

Republicans should gladly pay for my preexisting condition - LA Times

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Please don't be condescending. Just come out and admit it when you don't agree with someone.

I'm being 100% serious.

Do you understand the concept of economic scarcity?

If you truly do, can you explain how you would fund single payer and make it work without any of the well known pitfalls of socialized medicine that have been debated for over 100 years?

BE VERY DETAILED. Don't say things like "GET RID OF INSURANCE COMPANIES". Explain what happens when insurance companies disappear, who fills the void, etc.

I'll await your solution to funding single payer. I've never seen a solution that could work in the real world ever presented by anyone (doctors, presidential candidates, nobel peace prize winners), and I also made millions upon millions of dollars solving complex problems for large state and private entities so I know a thing or two about throwing money at problems in the most efficient way possible. SCARCITY is an extremely difficult problem to solve. The greatest economic minds on this planet spend years thinking about it and they get paid very well.

So if you manage to present a solution to this problem that actually makes sense, I'll be admittedly impressed! Heck, I'll write a check TODAY for $100,000 to help fund your KickStarter or GoFundme so you can pursue it for a variety of industries.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

...can you explain how you would fund single payer and make it work without any of the well known pitfalls of socialized medicine that have been debated for over 100 years?

BE VERY DETAILED. Don't say things like "GET RID OF INSURANCE COMPANIES". Explain what happens when insurance companies disappear, who fills the void, etc.

Check in on the health insurance sub forum. You can read the ongoing debates and suggested solutions about this very topic. (In addition, you might want to check back on that thread you started about this that you never returned to.) Then I won't have to repeat myself, will I?

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

I'll await your solution to funding single payer.

I'm sure you will.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

I'm being 100% serious.

Do you understand the concept of economic scarcity?

I'll await your solution to funding single payer. I've never seen a solution that could work in the real world ever presented by anyone (doctors, presidential candidates, nobel peace prize winners), and I also made millions upon millions of dollars solving complex problems for large state and private entities so I know a thing or two about throwing money at problems in the most efficient way possible.

Scarcity? Are you just parroting National Review articles? Do you not think that the United States is capable of training enough medical professionals to care for American's health care needs? Or that medical devices and drugs cannot be produced to meet the demand if everyone has (non-emergency room) healthcare?

As far as real world single payer solutions they're all around you and have existed for generations and you know it.

Again your argument boils down to wah wah wah I don't wanna pay for others. I'm sure you're super rich and successful and smart CaliRestoration.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Scarcity? Are you just parroting National Review articles? Do you not think that the United States is capable of training enough medical professionals to care for American's health care needs? Or that medical devices and drugs cannot be produced to meet the demand if everyone has (non-emergency room) healthcare?

As far as real world single payer solutions they're all around you and have existed for generations and you know it.

Again your argument boils down to wah wah wah I don't wanna pay for others. I'm sure you're super rich and successful and smart CaliRestoration.

WE are already running low on the quantity of health care professionals in this country.

Maybe you think lowering their pay and increasing the quantity of patients seen per day will make more people want to become doctors.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

WE are already running low on the quantity of health care professionals in this country.

Maybe you think lowering their pay and increasing the quantity of patients seen per day will make more people want to become doctors.

I don't think denying healthcare to people is the way to solve it, do you? Maybe we should follow the UK model where High School graduates go directly to medical school, they learn the same stuff as they do here and attend school for 6 years before their residency rather than 4 years in undergraduate studies and 4 years in medical school as we do here.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

WE are already running low on the quantity of health care professionals in this country.

Maybe you think lowering their pay and increasing the quantity of patients seen per day will make more people want to become doctors.

We have an aging Baby Boomer population and now millions more Americans receiving healthcare vs. pre-ACA times. The pipeline for medical workers isn't overnight. Plus the shortages are localized, like in regions where it's less desirable to practice or with recent rapid cost of living increases (Bay Area).

The pay should be increased in some cases to make the jobs more desirable, non MD solutions like the use of Physician Assistants should continue to be practiced, and the ACA actually took a good stab at moving away from capitation based compensation so doctors would be focused on outcomes instead of body counts.

[Biz901]

Originally Posted by pacific2

The 8 highest paid insurance company CEOs pulled in a combined total income of about 129.3 million dollars in 2016:
Highest-paid health insurance CEO earned $22M in 2016 | FierceHealthcare

That alone could pay for a lot of healthcare for Americans.

Include the rest of the parasites in "health insurance", who provided -0- actual service to the community, medical or otherwise, and then you're talking about a CHUNK of $$$.

Oh, and don't forget to include all the "investors" that profit from reallocating the costs of "insurance" around to those that don't need or want it, including BILLIONS now being misallocated by the State/Federal gubermint apparatchiks on behalf of their puppet masters...

Obummercare never was about saving people, it was about saving the insurance companies.