Solution to California housing problem and prisoner employment issues: use prison labor: (foreclosure, mortgages)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

I said killers, not murderers. Manslaughter, etc.?

What a bunch of psychobabble and twisted "facts" you have provided. How do I know that the person hired is not a rapist since he has not yet raped? You asked, that. No really, you asked that. That is fallacious.

I think it's completely rational to consider giving people a job who have not been in any trouble for several years but it's certainly your right to disagree.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I think it's completely rational to consider giving people a job who have not been in any trouble for several years but it's certainly your right to disagree.

Considering we’re near full employment and no one is voluntarily going into construction I don’t see your point.

[evening sun]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Considering we’re near full employment and no one is voluntarily going into construction I don’t see your point.

Plenty of people want to work in construction. Maybe not in your peer group, but ordinary people look for jobs in the construction industry all the time.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by evening sun

Plenty of people want to work in construction. Maybe not in your peer group, but ordinary people look for jobs in the construction industry all the time.

If this was the case there’d be a building boom but there isn’t: A Construction Worker Shortage Weighs on a Hot U.S. Housing Market

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

If this was the case there’d be a building boom but there isn’t: A Construction Worker Shortage Weighs on a Hot U.S. Housing Market

There's a construction worker shortage because 70% of those guys got pink slips in 2008, and it took years before the economy recovered. Construction by its nature is a boom/bust unstable occupation. So a lot of them transition into other jobs (maintenance jobs, CalTrans, other labor jobs). The economy is heating up so you'll see a lot of young people coming back, at least until the next downturn.

But the reason why this thread premise is silly is because simply injecting a prisoner population into the labor pool doesn't fix anything at all. Most of these guys haven't built a storage shed, let alone a full on house where people have to live inside of it.

How much do you think it would cost to train these guys up?
How would you get prisoners to work as a team when most of these guys ended up in jail because they couldn't get along on the outside, now they're suddenly going to become worker bees building tract homes at peak efficiency?

Why don't you explain that part of the plan?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

You're asking an entirely new question, expat. All I was pointing out to Perma Bear was that prisoners are already involved in many construction projects and it's not a new thing. AND it's working for everyone. Current inmates are gaining experience while state and charitable organizations are also reaping the benefits. Why U being such a negative nelly? Did someone pee in your cheerios this morning?

Hi, I know the programs exist and have no problem with them as they do help some inmates. I was addressing the reality that it will not really help housing issues in the popular areas as ... there is minimal room and huge costs involved, besides the training or oversight required for prisoners who have never done construction before.

Oh, haven't eaten Cheerios since I was a kid.

[semispherical]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

I think the issue in the past was with regard to the bolded part. I believe people were being convicted, specifically to use them as cheap labor, which they were farming out at a profit.

Not "were," are, at least since the Nixon era. Nixon's administration is on record as saying they started the "war on drugs," exaggerating the risks of marijuana (perceived as being used mostly by hippies) and crack cocaine (perceived as being used mostly by African Americans -- vs white Americans using powder cocaine), imposing steep fines and prison terms, and then disenfranchising (because felons and, in many states ex-felons, can't vote) them.

A few years later on, the Feds and many states realized they could sweeten the deal even further for their friends by contracting with private corporations to run prisons. SO: you can silence your enemies by incarcerating them, impoverish them with fines and by making them unemployable, keep them from voting, AND make money off them by using convict labor in for-profit prisons.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

There's a construction worker shortage because 70% of those guys got pink slips in 2008, and it took years before the economy recovered. Construction by its nature is a boom/bust unstable occupation. So a lot of them transition into other jobs (maintenance jobs, CalTrans, other labor jobs). The economy is heating up so you'll see a lot of young people coming back, at least until the next downturn.

But the reason why this thread premise is silly is because simply injecting a prisoner population into the labor pool doesn't fix anything at all. Most of these guys haven't built a storage shed, let alone a full on house where people have to live inside of it.

How much do you think it would cost to train these guys up?
How would you get prisoners to work as a team when most of these guys ended up in jail because they couldn't get along on the outside, now they're suddenly going to become worker bees building tract homes at peak efficiency?

Why don't you explain that part of the plan?

Because this’ll also give them job skills and so they won’t have to rely on crime (poverty is one of the main reasons for crime and most prisoners are for nonviolent offenses.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Because this’ll also give them job skills and so they won’t have to rely on crime (poverty is one of the main reasons for crime and most prisoners are for nonviolent offenses.

How much do you think it would cost to train these guys up? How would you pay for it?

How would you get prisoners to work as a team when most of these guys ended up in jail because they couldn't get along on the outside, now they're suddenly going to become worker bees building tract homes at peak efficiency?

[majoun]

Originally Posted by semispherical

Not "were," are, at least since the Nixon era. Nixon's administration is on record as saying they started the "war on drugs," exaggerating the risks of marijuana (perceived as being used mostly by hippies) and crack cocaine (perceived as being used mostly by African Americans -- vs white Americans using powder cocaine), imposing steep fines and prison terms, and then disenfranchising (because felons and, in many states ex-felons, can't vote) them.

A few years later on, the Feds and many states realized they could sweeten the deal even further for their friends by contracting with private corporations to run prisons. SO: you can silence your enemies by incarcerating them, impoverish them with fines and by making them unemployable, keep them from voting, AND make money off them by using convict labor in for-profit prisons.

Nitpick: there was no such thing as crack cocaine when Nixon was president, and the overwhelming majority of cocaine users when Nixon was president were white. I think you mean heroin or meth