Gov. Brown: Courts *Must* Let California Slash its Public-Sector Pensions (San Jose: school district, vs)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas

we pay the plumber market rate but he has to save for his own retirement

Not if a retirement plan is provided to most plumbers.

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I not only didn’t say anything was wrong with business ... I said the opposite: business is as important as government ... the two are symbiotic. But they have opposite purposes and methodologies, necessarily ... and “privatizing everything”, which is what Sporty posted a video about, is nuts.

You did say that and confused me when you said it wasn't designed to serve the public. It sounded like you were saying government is better than business or at least to me but maybe reading comprehension is off today. What gripes me is plenty of people think government should take over all aspects of our lives, as if we don't have the ability to function without them. It simply isn't true. I'm all for privatizing unions, if that's what an employee wants. Being forced to join something whether you want to or not is not only not right, it goes against freedom to choose but that's been happening for some years now. Maybe the winds are shifting because people are tired of being told they have to do this or that because someone with power says so.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Wrong, completely wrong. Market economics are the best way to create "public benefit" and it does so far more than government has.

Nuts. Completely nuts. There isn’t a “for profit” business anywhere whose purpose is to create public benefit. None. Zero. The fact that the public benefits from business / market economics is not a function of the business model or intent. Profit businesses exist to create their own benefit. Period. That is not a bad thing in itself. But it is also not expressly for society’s welfare.

These two functions, business and government, are symbiotically parasitic. Like the body’s gut bacteria. Neither can live and support a healthy system without the other.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

You did say that and confused me when you said it wasn't designed to serve the public. It sounded like you were saying government is better than business or at least to me but maybe reading comprehension is off today. What gripes me is plenty of people think government should take over all aspects of our lives, as if we don't have the ability to function without them. It simply isn't true. I'm all for privatizing unions, if that's what an employee wants. Being forced to join something whether you want to or not is not only not right, it goes against freedom to choose but that's been happening for some years now. Maybe the winds are shifting because people are tired of being told they have to do this or that because someone with power says so.

Completely agree ... ... ... ... in theory. And then along come people to disrupt theory’s nice neat packages.

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Then tell me what the public benefit is in customers paying 30% higher rates with PG&E, a private company than with SMUD, which is a public utility. They are both in the same geographic area and in some cases people on one side of the street is served by SMUD and PG&E on the other. Is the PG&E electricity better? Is the delivery of it superior?

As someone stated on a different thread from a while back:

SMUD is a public-owned electric nonprofit utility. One thing you will notice with your first bill is that SMUD charges considerably less than PG&E for electricity. They also don't spend millions of dollars trying to convince Californians to ban public-owned utility companies.

It can be found in this thread. SMUD v PG&E

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Completely agree ... ... ... ... in theory. And then along come people to disrupt theory’s nice neat packages.

Even if it's "in theory" I'll take that.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Nuts. Completely nuts. There isn’t a “for profit” business anywhere whose purpose is to create public benefit.

You said "designed for public benefit". Sometimes design is inherent outside of intent or purpose. If someone designs a ****ty race car for the purpose of winning races, doesn't mean it's the correct design or way to go.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Then tell me what the public benefit is in customers paying 30% higher rates with PG&E, a private company than with SMUD, which is a public utility. They are both in the same geographic area and in some cases people on one side of the street is served by SMUD and PG&E on the other. Is the PG&E electricity better? Is the delivery of it superior?

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

As someone stated on a different thread from a while back:

SMUD is a public-owned electric nonprofit utility. One thing you will notice with your first bill is that SMUD charges considerably less than PG&E for electricity. They also don't spend millions of dollars trying to convince Californians to ban public-owned utility companies.

It can be found in this thread. SMUD v PG&E

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Not if a retirement plan is provided to most plumbers.

No one is preventing private plumbing firms from providing retirement plans to their employees, in fact many do.

[Finper]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Is there a problem with getting "market rate salary"??? Isn't that what we all expect, if I'm a plumber and market rate is $40 an hour should I be expected to work for $10 an hour.

There is no evidence that what Irvine is doing is anything other than threatening the regional fire agency in order to negotiate a better deal. This goes on every year in Northern California where a number of cities contract with Cal Fire and when the contract is close to expiring they start flapping their wings and threatening to create their own Fire Department. Everyone knows it's BS, they will never form their own department.

If people in private industry had any sense they would demand a decent pension, if companies were able to divert 200 billion to stock buybacks in 5 months I have difficulty believing their claims that they can't afford to fund pensions for their employees.

You keep comparing N CA and San Jose with OC. You guys are used to bending over and paying anything and everything no questions or complaints. OC still has a lot of red pockets. We fight over things like the stupid sanctuary cities and we recalled Josh Newman over the gas tax rape. Although we are completely controlled by unions and dems we are starting to fight back against that too. I don't think Irvine makes idle threats. They are ready and willing to break off from the union if they continue to be ripped off to the tune of millions.