Gov. Brown: Courts *Must* Let California Slash its Public-Sector Pensions (San Jose: plumbing, designs)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

Clearly, privatization works and works well.

https://www.creators.com/read/john-s...ize-everything


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAhZqM83Zio

Oh please. As capitalist as you are, you’re not stupid. Government and business have two complimentarily symbiotic but diametrically opposed purposes.

Businesses are profit-generators that, in doing so, provide employment and economic flow. Business is not otherwise designed for public benefit.

Government is to serve and safeguard its citizens. In doing so it must encourage and support business economics - but only in-so-far as the public is safely served.

Therefore privatization of “everything” ...

I hear you (and others) crying out “well then privatize and government regulate!”
Which is totally unrealistic horsepucky as well for several reasons ...

I can go on, as you know well ... but back to buliding the new boat for the moment ...

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Businesses are profit-generators that, in doing so, provide employment and economic flow. Business is not otherwise designed for public benefit.

But what's wrong with that? Businesses help the community and we live in those communities. I'd rather give my month to a business for material goods or services than the government who will use it on who knows what. Don't mind me, I'm just one of those stupid old people who still believes business is good for the country.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

But what's wrong with that? Businesses help the community and we live in those communities. I'd rather give my month to a business for material goods or services than the government who will use it on who knows what. Don't mind me, I'm just one of those stupid old people who still believes business is good for the country.

I not only didn’t say anything was wrong with business ... I said the opposite: business is as important as government ... the two are symbiotic. But they have opposite purposes and methodologies, necessarily ... and “privatizing everything”, which is what Sporty posted a video about, is nuts.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas

they could try..by eliminating defined benefits pension..offer 10-20% share in their retirement contribution..generous disability insurance
also, follow the military in hiring.. if nobody is signing up, give signing bonuses

No one is going to work for an agency that requires that employees pay 80 or 90% of their pension plan, and PEPRA passed in 2013 among other things required that Public Safety employees contribute 12% to their retirement plan starting in 2018. https://www.calpers.ca.gov/docs/form...ension-act.pdf

Signing bonuses indeed....I hate to bring up San Jose again but they tried that too, raised salaries and revoked most of the changes to pensions and they are still understaffed.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/...25000-bonuses/

[payutenyodagimas]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

No one is going to work for an agency that requires that employees pay 80 or 90% of their pension plan, and PEPRA passed in 2013 among other things required that Public Safety employees contribute 12% to their retirement plan starting in 2018. https://www.calpers.ca.gov/docs/form...ension-act.pdf

Signing bonuses indeed....I hate to bring up San Jose again but they tried that too, raised salaries and revoked most of the changes to pensions and they are still understaffed.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/...25000-bonuses/

they should try..there is no existing FD in Irvine so nobody will sabotage it. start with a clean slate


the problem right now is that public employees get market salary rate and nice retirement


that was unheard of before. before if you are in the pay of the public, you just get decent salary because you expect nice retirement


if you are receiving good pay now, you should be able to contribute your own retirement

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas

they should try..there is no existing FD in Irvine so nobody will sabotage it. start with a clean slate
the problem right now is that public employees get market salary rate and nice retirement
that was unheard of before. before if you are in the pay of the public, you just get decent salary because you expect nice retirement
if you are receiving good pay now, you should be able to contribute your own retirement

Is there a problem with getting "market rate salary"??? Isn't that what we all expect, if I'm a plumber and market rate is $40 an hour should I be expected to work for $10 an hour.

There is no evidence that what Irvine is doing is anything other than threatening the regional fire agency in order to negotiate a better deal. This goes on every year in Northern California where a number of cities contract with Cal Fire and when the contract is close to expiring they start flapping their wings and threatening to create their own Fire Department. Everyone knows it's BS, they will never form their own department.

If people in private industry had any sense they would demand a decent pension, if companies were able to divert 200 billion to stock buybacks in 5 months I have difficulty believing their claims that they can't afford to fund pensions for their employees.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Business is not otherwise designed for public benefit.

Wrong, completely wrong. Market economics are the best way to create "public benefit" and it does so far more than government has.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

If people in private industry had any sense they would demand a decent pension, if companies were able to divert 200 billion to stock buybacks in 5 months I have difficulty believing their claims that they can't afford to fund pensions for their employees.

Why is it unbelievable? Have you seen the unfunded liabilities that CalPERs has unloaded onto California taxpayers? We're talking the market cap of CISCO here.

[payutenyodagimas]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Is there a problem with getting "market rate salary"??? Isn't that what we all expect, if I'm a plumber and market rate is $40 an hour should I be expected to work for $10 an hour.

we pay the plumber market rate but he has to save for his own retirement

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Wrong, completely wrong. Market economics are the best way to create "public benefit" and it does so far more than government has.

Then tell me what the public benefit is in customers paying 30% higher rates with PG&E, a private company than with SMUD, which is a public utility. They are both in the same geographic area and in some cases people on one side of the street is served by SMUD and PG&E on the other. Is the PG&E electricity better? Is the delivery of it superior?