Paradise Fire/Camp Creek Fire 11/08/2018 (Sacramento, Red Bluff: closing, restaurant, eat)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Class action suits typically benefit no one but the 1) primary party, who receives the payout, and 2) the attorney who handles the case and gets half the payout. They get rich; you get coupons against future power bills. PG&E has to raise rates to cover costs; everybody loses.

True the attorneys make money, which is why so many are in congress both State and Fed. The ye get write the laws about it.


I would file a suit and get access to every record and if any info turns up that a problem was known go after the employees and the management. In some cases malfeasance will not be covered by the company but fully on the law breaker. Maybe see if the people you vote into office will get a law passed stopping any money coming from costs increase, rather from stock holders dividends, etc., so they may deal with the management. Lots of options. In some cases attorneys will do the work and not change you, as noted above they may wel get paid in any event.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by expatCA

True the attorneys make money, which is why so many are in congress both State and Fed. The ye get write the laws about it.


I would file a suit and get access to every record and if any info turns up that a problem was known go after the employees and the management. In some cases malfeasance will not be covered by the company but fully on the law breaker. Maybe see if the people you vote into office will get a law passed stopping any money coming from costs increase, rather from stock holders dividends, etc., so they may deal with the management. Lots of options. In some cases attorneys will do the work and not change you, as noted above they may wel get paid in any event.

Class action suit attorney usually gets paid (30-50% of any cash judgment) on contingency; they don't charge the plaintiff.

Consider what happens, tho, if you win, and PG&E has to fork over billions (which you will never see a dime of, because class plaintiffs rank pretty low on the creditors ladder) and goes bankrupt. Someone will buy them out for pennies on the dollar. Chances are this will be some foreign interest who couldn't care less about anything but how fast they can Enron the company's corpse, and now things are worse than before.

Pass a law stating that such costs can't be passed on to consumers, and watch how fast any industry that has inherent risks pulls out of California.

Also possible that the state will Venezuela PG&E in the name of costs recovery, and it will then be passed on to one of the governor's cronies.

So be careful what you wish for. You may be able to punish PG&E, but bear in mind that if CA didn't penalize business with high taxes and regulatory costs, there'd be more money for maintenance, and that if you manage to kill PG&E, their successor may be worse.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Pass a law stating that such costs can't be passed on to consumers, and watch how fast any industry that has inherent risks pulls out of California.

Also possible that the state will Venezuela PG&E in the name of costs recovery, and it will then be passed on to one of the governor's cronies.

So be careful what you wish for. You may be able to punish PG&E, but bear in mind that if CA didn't penalize business with high taxes and regulatory costs, there'd be more money for maintenance, and that if you manage to kill PG&E, their successor may be worse.

PG&E could be split up and run as several publicly owned regional utilities like SMUD. SMUD rates are 30% lower than PG&E. The profit motive doesn't benefit consumers when it comes to utilities that we all rely on.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

PG&E could be split up and run as several publicly owned regional utilities like SMUD. SMUD rates are 30% lower than PG&E. The profit motive doesn't benefit consumers when it comes to utilities that we all rely on.

That might be a best-case. However, betting on what will happen in court is Russian roulette.

Agreed that certain basics do not benefit the public once profit becomes a driving factor (this is why I'm not a big fan of 'privatizing' certain services, and very much dislike the result of contracting out everything). However, don't bet on a breakup making your rates go down. Here in Montana I get power from a co-op, and despite that I get a dividend -- their rates are higher than SoCal Edison.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Reziac

That might be a best-case. However, betting on what will happen in court is Russian roulette.

Agreed that certain basics do not benefit the public once profit becomes a driving factor (this is why I'm not a big fan of 'privatizing' certain services, and very much dislike the result of contracting out everything). However, don't bet on a breakup making your rates go down. Here in Montana I get power from a co-op, and despite that I get a dividend -- their rates are higher than SoCal Edison.

Here's an article about the rate differences between public and private utilities in California

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...614-story.html

I just looked briefly at four different co-ops in Montana and the electric rates were all lower than SoCal Edison (I didn't see gas rates listed). But is your rate actually higher, or are you paying more because of the difference in weather? I only ask that because when we moved to Nevada our utility bill was twice what it was in Northern California but the rates for gas in Nevada weren't much higher than California, and electric rates were cheaper...we were paying more because it is much colder in the winter in Northern Nevada and it's hot in the summer.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Here's an article about the rate differences between public and private utilities in California

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...614-story.html

Big diff being the public utilities haven't been as thoroughly "deregulated" (I remember when Mayor Reardon saw the handwriting on the wall and refused to sell L.A.'s generation facilities). Back before CA copied Montana Power's descent into Enronization, my SoCalEdison bill was only $8 for the household basics. Within a year after "deregulation" it was up to $80 even tho I'd cut back my usage by a third or more. Wasn't so much the base rate that went up, as the way it was scaled and scheduled -- to stay at the bottom rate, you could use no more than a single light bulb, and only at night.

Rates went up similarly in MT, post-dereg -- electric heat (formerly common because it was so cheap) became completely untenable, with bills going up by a factor of ten or more.

You can watch the whole sordid story here:
https://www.pbs.org/video/montanapbs...power-brokers/

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

just looked briefly at four different co-ops in Montana and the electric rates were all lower than SoCal Edison (I didn't see gas rates listed). But is your rate actually higher, or are you paying more because of the difference in weather? I only ask that because when we moved to Nevada our utility bill was twice what it was in Northern California but the rates for gas in Nevada weren't much higher than California, and electric rates were cheaper...we were paying more because it is much colder in the winter in Northern Nevada and it's hot in the summer.

For the electric co-op I pay about $100 for 500KWh (which cost me about $80 from SoCalEd). The base rate is no higher, and the scaling is similar, but I also pay a $19 fee for each meter -- that's charged whether you use any power or not. So the bill is perforce that much higher regardless.

In SoCal my heat was propane, and here in MT I have natural gas -- which costs so much less that instead of heating one room just enough to take the chill off for $3/hour (yes, propane was really that expensive, I did the math) I can comfortably heat a somewhat larger house for $60/month (my worst gas bill was $90 and that's when we had a month of -25 temps). So, tradeoffs.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Big diff being the public utilities haven't been as thoroughly "deregulated" (I remember when Mayor Reardon saw the handwriting on the wall and refused to sell L.A.'s generation facilities). Back before CA copied Montana Power's descent into Enronization, my SoCalEdison bill was only $8 for the household basics. Within a year after "deregulation" it was up to $80 even tho I'd cut back my usage by a third or more. Wasn't so much the base rate that went up, as the way it was scaled and scheduled -- to stay at the bottom rate, you could use no more than a single light bulb, and only at night.

Rates went up similarly in MT, post-dereg -- electric heat (formerly common because it was so cheap) became completely untenable, with bills going up by a factor of ten or more.

You can watch the whole sordid story here:
https://www.pbs.org/video/montanapbs...power-brokers/



For the electric co-op I pay about $100 for 500KWh (which cost me about $80 from SoCalEd). The base rate is no higher, and the scaling is similar, but I also pay a $19 fee for each meter -- that's charged whether you use any power or not. So the bill is perforce that much higher regardless.

In SoCal my heat was propane, and here in MT I have natural gas -- which costs so much less that instead of heating one room just enough to take the chill off for $3/hour (yes, propane was really that expensive, I did the math) I can comfortably heat a somewhat larger house for $60/month (my worst gas bill was $90 and that's when we had a month of -25 temps). So, tradeoffs.

Interesting, thanks for the info

[JGC97]

PG&E is looking to sell off its natural gas division as early as this Spring.

https://abc30.com/amp/business/pg-e-...3bv12wn1YXK7S0

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

PG&E is looking to sell off its natural gas division as early as this Spring.

https://abc30.com/amp/business/pg-e-...3bv12wn1YXK7S0

That's really interesting, thanks.

[movinon]

Very interesting. I only get gas from them - my electricity comes from my city. That's the first I've heard of this, beyond speculation amongst the neighbors. Thanks for posting this.