Prop 13 reform to be on 2020 ballot (rent, insurance, cost of)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Why?

At times a large business changes who owns it without a complete stock sale. The new owners keep the old tax rate and this keeps happening. Small businesses when they sell the property, that was part of the business, cause the new owners see the taxes go up. It is the large corps that dodge the bullet.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by expatCA

At times a large business changes who owns it without a complete stock sale. The new owners keep the old tax rate and this keeps happening. Small businesses when they sell the property, that was part of the business, cause the new owners see the taxes go up. It is the large corps that dodge the bullet.

Lots of discussion about that on this thread: http://www.city-data.com/forum/calif...megatopic.html

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Why?

What he said below ... ⬇

Originally Posted by expatCA

At times a large business changes who owns it without a complete stock sale. The new owners keep the old tax rate and this keeps happening. Small businesses when they sell the property, that was part of the business, cause the new owners see the taxes go up. It is the large corps that dodge the bullet.

[davidt1]

There is a story about when the establishment went after the Jews, people said nothing because it didn't affect them. Then they went after the Asians. People didn't pay attention because it didn't affect them. Then blacks, gays, women, etc.


They won't just stop with the commercial part of Prop 13. They will go after the residential part of Prop 13 too. There is too much at stake here to say, "it doesn't affect me, a homeowner."

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

"Production" is an additive measure.

If 5 people are busy making pencils, compared to 2 people making pencils, then yes 5 people will be more "productive" since 10 hands, all things equal, are more productive than 4 hands.

I've always understood productivity = output/input. It can be measured in either units or in dollars.

In your example above, let's say 5 people generate 50 pencils (output)/5 person-hours (input) while your 2 people example generate 20 pencils/2 person-hours. Their productivity is the same: 10 pencils/person-hour.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Not sure why they think overturning Prop 13 is going to help them afford a home.

Eliminating the residential portion of Prop 13 would likely end up in the following chain of events:

1) Property tax bills go up substantially on residences that last were sold many decades ago, as their artificially low tax bills are raised to reflect actual assessed valuations (there are some assumptions baked into this statement).
2) Some of the residence owners who have long enjoyed artificially low property tax bills may sell their homes and move out-of-state. This increases supply of housing for-sale on the market and decreases the number of buyers on the market.

Very hypothetically, such an increase in housing supply coupled with a decrease in the number of people in the state might lower the AVERAGE cost of housing in the state. In theory. And as we all know, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is.

At the same time, all housing is local. Any hypothetical prop-13-elimination housing price drop in one area might result in an exogenous increase in demand for housing as people in remote areas attempt to move closer to work. Or something like that.

As we all know, predictions are difficult to make, especially about the future.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by mgforshort

In a perfect world, (yes, I know, I'm a dreamer here) property taxes would be based on the size of the home and the number of residents inside the walls.

A property tax is a wealth tax. Why should there be a wealth tax IN ADDITION TO an income tax?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by RationalExpectations

Eliminating the residential portion of Prop 13 would likely end up in the following chain of events:

1) Property tax bills go up substantially on residences that last were sold many decades ago, as their artificially low tax bills are raised to reflect actual assessed valuations (there are some assumptions baked into this statement).
2) Some of the residence owners who have long enjoyed artificially low property tax bills may sell their homes and move out-of-state. This increases supply of housing for-sale on the market and decreases the number of buyers on the market.

Very hypothetically, such an increase in housing supply coupled with a decrease in the number of people in the state might lower the AVERAGE cost of housing in the state. In theory. And as we all know, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is.

At the same time, all housing is local. Any hypothetical prop-13-elimination housing price drop in one area might result in an exogenous increase in demand for housing as people in remote areas attempt to move closer to work. Or something like that.

As we all know, predictions are difficult to make, especially about the future.

Remember the price may drop but the total cost will go up as the tax will still be more and more each year as the Gov't already showed it will do that beyond what people can afford. That is why Prop 13 came about. In other words the cost will not drop, so if you can't afford one now, you would not be able to if Prop 13 was eliminated.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by RationalExpectations

Eliminating the residential portion of Prop 13 would likely end up in the following chain of events.....

....2) Some of the residence owners who have long enjoyed artificially low property tax bills may sell their homes and move out-of-state. This increases supply of housing for-sale on the market and decreases the number of buyers on the market.

Which is ironic, considering that one of the reasons Prop 13 passed was that so many senior homeowners had either sold their homes to move out of state, or were about to, since they could no longer afford their unpredictable and escalating property taxes.

Also, not sure what you mean about "owners who have long enjoyed artificially low property tax bills." These homeowners had been paying property taxes for decades. One might possibly believe their tax bills were "artificially low" because homes were less expensive in comparison to today. Salaries were much lower as well.

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Which is ironic, considering that one of the reasons Prop 13 passed was that so many senior homeowners had either sold their homes to move out of state, or were about to, since they could no longer afford their unpredictable and escalating property taxes.

Also, not sure what you mean about "owners who have long enjoyed artificially low property tax bills." These homeowners had been paying property taxes for decades. One might possibly believe their tax bills were "artificially low" because homes were less expensive in comparison to today. Salaries were much lower as well.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Why do we have to keep repeating this to those who don't understand the reluctance to want a change in it? The reason you stated is exactly what happened and if they do away with this Proposition for homeowners the same thing will happen again. And to add icing to the cake, all those who want this done away with will eventually experience the same thing in their lifetime. Clueless people. Absolutely clueless.