“If you want to leave, fine. But don’t insult California on the way out” (San Francisco: rental car, rental)

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Enjoy Ohio!

Oh, I plan to! I plan to especially enjoy my family there! Thank you! You enjoy Houston!

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

You are either:

a) Playing devils advocate and arguing for the sake of arguing.

b) So out of touch with the entire Contiguous United States that you cannot fathom how people can live without mild temperatures all year round.

Yes, its hot in the South and Southwest in the summer. Yes its cold in the Northeast, Mountain West, and Midwest in winter. Yes, if you stayed outside all day long in either environment it would be hazardous. HOWEVER, no one ever stays outside all day long. We go outside for shorter intervals and still do things like exercise, hike, sit on patios, and the like in heat or go ice fishing, skating, or play hockey in the cold.

Where do people get this absolutely ASININE notion that people who don't live in Coastal California spend months indoors for 3-4 months while barely leaving???? Heat and cold can both kill you, we know. That's why people in Minnesota just dont walk outside in shorts and a t-shirt in winter and why people in Texas carry water around with them in the summer.

Funny you should mention playing hockey in Minnesota. I did. There and Michigan. From age five to 17.
I also served multiple combat tours in hot, steamy humid SE Asia jungles.
I’ve personally witnessed individuals being treated for frostbite… and personally performed emergency first aid to victims of heatstroke.
So no. Pretty sure I’m not out of touch with the issues discussed.

What you are missing is topical context. The topic is addressing the nominal QoL considerations of where people choose to live and thrive … and why rear-view mirror sour grapes fulmination is so silly. Most people in Minnesota gripe about winter cold when it gets bitter. Most people in Texas gripe about the increasing heat waves. Both have perfectly legitimate reasons. And to cavalierly dismiss most people’s’ frustrations and downright mortal concerns is simply unsupportable scientifically and historically. Exceptional peoples’ tolerances, and even pleasures, notwithstanding.

As for whether I am *merely* playing Devil’s advocate? Well, if I am, that has no bearing on the correctness of my comments. Right?

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Enjoy Ohio!

As somebody who moved from Ohio to California, I have to respond with all available humility... to each, his own.

There are ample personal reasons to keep my California sojourn limited, but the next destination will certainly not be between the Rockies and the Appalachians. If it is, for whatever reason, impractical to be within 50 miles of the Pacific, the next-best is to be within 50 miles of the Atlantic.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

As somebody who moved from Ohio to California, I have to respond with all available humility... to each, his own.

There are ample personal reasons to keep my California sojourn limited, but the next destination will certainly not be between the Rockies and the Appalachians. If it is, for whatever reason, impractical to be within 50 miles of the Pacific, the next-best is to be within 50 miles of the Atlantic.

I wasnt being sarcastic. I love Cincinnati and I think that is where shes headed. She currently lives in Texas and we were disagreeing over a Texas-based issue. We werent getting anywhere so all I could say was "Enjoy Ohio".

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Funny you should mention playing hockey in Minnesota. I did. There and Michigan. From age five to 17.
I also served multiple combat tours in hot, steamy humid SE Asia jungles.
I’ve personally witnessed individuals being treated for frostbite… and personally performed emergency first aid to victims of heatstroke.
So no. Pretty sure I’m not out of touch with the issues discussed.

What you are missing is topical context. The topic is addressing the nominal QoL considerations of where people choose to live and thrive … and why rear-view mirror sour grapes fulmination is so silly. Most people in Minnesota gripe about winter cold when it gets bitter. Most people in Texas gripe about the increasing heat waves. Both have perfectly legitimate reasons. And to cavalierly dismiss most people’s’ frustrations and downright mortal concerns is simply unsupportable scientifically and historically. Exceptional peoples’ tolerances, and even pleasures, notwithstanding.

As for whether I am *merely* playing Devil’s advocate? Well, if I am, that has no bearing on the correctness of my comments. Right?

Rear view mirror sour grapes are ridiculous. I completely agree with you there. Too often people move to a place expecting it to be something its not. My personal favorite are Californians that move to Texas expecting it to be solid red in almost every corner. Weve lost a few to Tennessee for that reason that I know personally. People need to study a place, visit it, and see it for what it is (as opposed to what they want it to be) before relocating.

But the point about the climate just feels so obtuse. Everyone knows prolonged exposure to heat and cold can be detrimental to you. I am just extremely perturbed that people in California or up North are trying to tell me that people dont go outside in Houston to do things in the Summer because I KNOW that is false. I see it every single day with my own eyes but people are somehow trying to convince me that what Im seeing isnt real??? The hot dog eating contest comparisson feels very disingenuous because only a very small select number of people can do that. However, the overwhelmingly majority of people cope with heat and cold fine. We take precautions like taking extra water in heat or wearing extra layers in cold, but we still live our lives.

You have to choose cold winters, hot summers, or ridiculous cost of living in Coast California. Those are your only options, so what do you do? Most of us are just trying to do the best with the hand were dealt.

[Igor Blevin]

I lived most of my life in Sacramento CA, with very hot summers and coldish winters. Even the decade I lived in San Francisco, that fog was FREEZING cold in the summer time, warped my truck rotors and spreckled my Harley Davidson with rust.

Unless you live in a place like San Diego or the south coast, you are going to face some kind of weather.

[KathrynAragon]

Most folks in the US deal with SOME kind of weather, that's totally true. I mean, like the vast majority. Most have really relevant reasons for not choosing to live in California. Like me, for instance, and I am not some sort of crazed outlier.

For instance, my very favorite state is Virginia. However, I still choose not to live there because I have zero family there, or anywhere remotely close. Same with Texas, my second favorite state. My closest family is a five hour drive, and that's just to the MIDDLE of the state! And he'll move anyway so there's that. He hates the traffic where he lives, for starters.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

And you continue to ignore the point previously made [that for the vast majority of humanity, high heat and humidity are grossly limiting to activity and mortality dangerous].

That fractional numbers of Homo sapiens can tolerate and function in high temperatures/ humidity does not mean those conditions are tolerable and healthy for the majority. They are not. Which is why there are health bulletins and public service warnings about excessive heat, public cooling centers set up, energy providers plead for users to conserve, welfare checks urged for elderly and disabled and homeless, all while media broadcast coverage of heat events coast to coast. And. People. Drop. Dead from heat-related health crises.

You tolerate heat well? Good for you. Really. Nice since you like living where you do. Now try eating 76 hot dogs - with buns - in 10 minutes. Give Joey Chestnut a run for his championship belt.

Your cavalier dismissiveness is scientifically and historically unsupportable.

Have a nice day. Stay warm.

1. I'm not cavalier at all. When it's hot out and I want to be out I'll eat carefully, drink enormous amounts of water, sometimes I'll eat a few salt tablets etc.

2. 40% of humans isn't some trivial number. If 40% of the world's people can make it in the tropics I can make it in North Texas/DFW.

3. According to the American Lung Association per big cities LA has the #1 worst ozone exposure, #4 worst year round particulate exposure and the #9 worst short term particulate exposure.....you don't see me imploring those in the LA basin to stay inside or move away and if I lived there I would not stay inside.


Matter of fact CA cities dominate all three lists.

https://www.lung.org/research/sota/c...olluted-cities

[ddeemo]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

And while you were relishing in your click bait articles, I was there at the same time. Hmmm? Where are all those homeless people shooting up and all that poop on the streets/sidewalk? How is that possible that the media would say the entire city looked as you claimed.

Amazing how people believe all the nonsense posted by the media and never take the time to actually visit the area in question.

Oh dear God. Look at how filthy the city looks!

Here are some photos that show a very different SF from the daily mail - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Francisco.html and local SF news story from a few months ago https://youtu.be/PMGJ71xiaek.

That is the kind of thing I saw when I was there a few months ago in some areas.

From an article in the SFGate.

In an interview with SFGATE, Sam Singer, one of San Francisco’s top communications strategists, approached San Francisco’s image problem from a PR perspective.

“Perception is reality,” Singer thinks San Francisco’s image in the media and beyond “is somewhere between ‘The Wire’ and ‘Squid Game.’”

“San Francisco has a deep-rooted and significant image and reputation problem,” he said. “In fact, I would say that the city is in crisis mode.”

Singer said San Francisco’s publicized corruption issues at City Hall and the Department of Building Inspection contribute to the city’s reputation. He noted what he called the city’s unwillingness to arrest and prosecute criminals, which leads to viral videos showing thieves running out of Walgreens with their spoils or tearing through Neiman-Marcus with stolen designer purses.

Singer also said the city’s housing crisis, as evidenced by its visible homeless population, makes San Francisco appear inhospitable to tourists and locals alike.

“You’re looking at a city that is beyond the pandemic, that has a pandemic of mental health, drug abuse, crime and corruption issues. And the city needs to start to address those issues or it will fall further and further behind.”

[blameyourself]

Originally Posted by ddeemo

Here are some photos that show a very different SF from the daily mail - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Francisco.html and local SF news story from a few months ago https://youtu.be/PMGJ71xiaek.

That is the kind of thing I saw when I was there a few months ago in some areas.

From an article in the SFGate.

Yawn. More pictures of the Tenderloin and yet another silly Op-Ed (I'm glad you enjoyed your time in that neighborhood).

I'm getting the impression that you and others have never stepped foot in San Francisco. For the umpteenth time, 60% of the homeless reside in the Tenderloin. It is one section of the city. A photo op is always available there (and the disingenuous media knows that). However, unlike the hyperbole that is constantly spewed, the rest of the city does not look that way and there are not needles in every alley. When you find anything different than the same tired narrative, get back to me.

[aslowdodge]

My sister works in San Francisco. She was used to some homeless and was even friends with a few talking to them and buying little trinkets they would sell.
She said it has gotten really bad where she is very uncomfortable there. The pan handlers are very aggressive literally following you around and saying they will walk with you to the atm so you can withdraw cash for them. As a women having a man follow you is very unnerving.
I’m not sure how some can say it’s not that bad.