California's political prisoners.... (homes, neighborhoods, school districts)

[MIKEETC]

Originally Posted by mother of a 3-striker...

Twice he stole things that were found in his possession and cops returned. When he was stopped for the traffic violation (expired registration) he was stoned or drunk. That was still 12 years ago.

The more you write, the less sorry I feel for him. In addition to the burglary and theft you cited as his previous crimes, we now have driving with an expired registration (admittedly a minor violation) and driving under the influence. Then he evaded police to (unsuccessfully) avoid arrest. How many breaks can one expect before society in general says enough? He has already received two 'breaks' - one after each release for doing time for the other two crimes. What did he do? He squandered them! Who is to say that on his third 'break' he doesn't do something stupid again? What if he attempts, for example, to evade the police again and in the process hits an innocent individual minding his/her own business? No thanks - he already burned society twice.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by mother of a 3-striker...

Twice he stole things that were found in his possession and cops returned. When he was stopped for the traffic violation (expired registration) he was stoned or drunk. That was still 12 years ago.

Your son reminds me of the son of a former co-worker of mine...

As a single parent, she worked hard to provide a home. Her 19 year old son was in and out of trouble and caused her a lot of grief. She even took him down to join the Army and 3 weeks later he was back home.

The last time the police picked him up, she was actually angry that the public defender was able to get him out because she would again have to worry about him getting into trouble and her home... you see, he also stole from her.

Less than a week later, he was shot dead on a street corner at 1 a.m. in the morning in a drive by... to this day she believes her son would be alive if he wouldn't have been let out of jail.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by BennyPhoenix

I have sympathy for the mother, not the son.

I don't. There's a reason these people grow up to be criminals.

A lot of times the families are worse than the inmates. When they visit they constantly try to smuggle in drugs, weapons, you name it.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by mother of a 3-striker...

My son has been behind bars and kept out of society for 12 years. He has had 12 years of time to think about his crimes and offenses and to wise up. I agree career criminals need to be kept away from society. I also know that some criminals can turn their lives around. 14 years ago he stole stuff that was returned to the owners. Then 12 years ago he was being stopped for a traffic violation and panicked and ran. I know it was a dumb thing to do. I'll say it again, 13 more years in prison is excessive and cruel and doesn't fit the crime.

This is their version. Then, typically, you go look at the case file and you'll get a completely different set of facts. Keep in mind that these people are in the business of completely misrepresenting what they did in order to solicit sympathy. You rarely get the true story from inmates or family members alone.

Just look at the headline of this thread: "California's Political Prisoners." Trying to make people believe that her son is a Tiananmen Square protester or something noble when, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

[phloxy]

I am reading this thread with some interest, and I wonder, at what point can we say that someone has paid his or her debt to society. Is it not possible that someone could be a repeat offender and then actually begin to learn or be "rehabilitated"? I generally don't believe that the US prison does a lot of rehabilitating, but it's still possible for people to learn from mistakes. With 3 strikes in CA, does that mean you are in jail for life after three felonies?

Given the problems with racism in the criminal justice system, I think it's possible that some repeat offenders could in fact be political prisoners of a sort if their crimes have been exaggerated or some other miscarriage of justice has taken place. These kinds of shenanigans have been documented countless times.

But let's say that the crimes are real. Could it still be possible for someone to turn away from criminal behavior and given the right skills and knowledge be able to be a functioning and law-abiding member of society? These skills and things are what prison should provide if we as a society are interested in having less crime and fewer problems with repeat offenders.

I say this without much firsthand knowledge of the criminal justice system aside from clients i have worked with who have come through drug court and alternatives to incarceration programs in NY state. That system is imperfect, too, because the problem of crime is very complex and multifaceted. It's not just "bad people." It's also society that has made it possible for criminal behavior to flourish. i believe it's also partly the "I got mine" attitude that i see so frequently that makes people care very little about their neighbors or communities so long as they personally are comfortable and taken care of.

I don't want to get flamed. But I do find these kinds of threads interesting. I got to know a guy in college who was in for second-degree murder in NY and was paroled after serving quite a bit of time. I know that what he did was terrible, but he really did change, and I was glad to call him a friend. He was contributing more to his community and to society than I was at the time. He changed my perspective on a lot of things and has made me think more about the criminal justice system, criminal behavior, and what we can do about the whole mess.

Sorry for rambling.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by mother of a 3-striker...

I understand your reasoning but after serving 12 years (beginning at age 24) for stupid mistakes like evading arrest, don't you think its a waste of taxpayers money and human resources to house these non-violent offenders for an additional 13 years?

I can't beleive you call these prisoners, political prisoners. you obviously do not know what political prisoners are..

I am sorry for you son, sometimes laws do not or are not fair, but I am also sure he knew what he was doing and now, is paying dearly for his decision.

Nita

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by mother of a 3-striker...

Prop 66, according to poles before the election, was favored 3 to 1. Even Joe Klass who was instrumental in initiating the law favored Prop 66 and had admitted to flaws in the law. Then big money was donated by several groups including Prison Guards Unions and the California Correctional Peace Officers Asso. and the Governor launched a campaign blitz where he deliberately falsely advertised against Prop 66. He stated that if it passed there would be 26,000 murderers and rapists released from prisons when in fact it would have affected approximately 4200 inmates who only would have had there cases reviewed before any actions could have been taken.

My son has been behind bars and kept out of society for 12 years. He has had 12 years of time to think about his crimes and offenses and to wise up. I agree career criminals need to be kept away from society. I also know that some criminals can turn their lives around. 14 years ago he stole stuff that was returned to the owners. Then 12 years ago he was being stopped for a traffic violation and panicked and ran. I know it was a dumb thing to do. I'll say it again, 13 more years in prison is excessive and cruel and doesn't fit the crime.

This has already been reviewed by the Supreme Court, which determined that three strikes is not cruel and unusual. These are the cases the Supreme Court reviewed where three strikers tried to get the law overturned:

A heroin addict, he had seven previous convictions. None of the convictions were for violent crimes, but three were for residential burglaries that were classified as strikes. With that criminal history, he was given third-strike sentences of 25 years to life for each of the two video shoplifting convictions. He will not be eligible for parole until he is 87. He was 37 when he stole the videos.

He had nine previous convictions, including three burglaries and a robbery in which he brandished a knife. The grand theft conviction normally carried a maximum three-year sentence, but he was given a third-strike term of 25 to life. Thirty-eight years old at the time of the golf club theft, he won't be eligible for parole until age 63.

Three Strikes - Justices allow 25-year-to-life terms for shoplifting

Let's face it, if people are multiple offenders ... they're looking for trouble. And if they hit the streets again ... they will do the same thing. Nobody is going to employ them in this economy so ...

The taxpayers are better off by keeping these people in prison.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by phloxy

But let's say that the crimes are real. Could it still be possible for someone to turn away from criminal behavior and given the right skills and knowledge be able to be a functioning and law-abiding member of society? These skills and things are what prison should provide if we as a society are interested in having less crime and fewer problems with repeat offenders.

As I previously mentioned, the inmate firefighters are the best example of rehabilitation that works. They go out and fight fires. They also assist paramedics with emergency situations. The recidivism rate with this program is very low.

To qualify, however, inmates do have to follow the rules, not have any disciplinary actions, etc. because they do have a lot of freedom in the firefighter program and the state cannot risk putting inmates with behavior problems into this program.

A lot of inmates do not qualify because they are simply incapable of following the rules. I don't know if it's the drugs frying their brains or the fact that they've never developed a conscience to begin with but ...

You're basically dealing with a child like mentality in men who have never grown up to be adults. They have no desire to work, much less be responsible citizens.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by mother of a 3-striker...

His crimes happened 12 years ago when he was immature and needed drug and alcohol rehab. He has been incarcerated since then and has seen the errors of his ways. He is now 37. He has been paying his debt back to society for his crimes. Staying in prison another 13 years is excessive punishment that doesn't fit the crime.

of course it fits the crime: to you, as a mother he has been mis-understood, he just needed re-had, so he didn't have a weapon when he committed the first 2 crimes or we have to assume he didn't cause you seen to be telling us they were not voilent crimes, but to me bulgary and theft is very serious..Next time he have had a weapon and harmed someone..or maybe he did have one but didn't use it..

One of the many reasons we have so many criminals today is parents who think their kids are the victoms instead of the assailants..

Sorry if this sounds cold, but I have no sympathy for anyone who doesn't respect the law, especially 3 crimes in just a few years, drugs or no drugs.

by the way, I can say this and I have a nephew is a similar situation. He was a little older when he committed the third cruime, but he did it and yes, he will be in prison for a long time...so it isn't like our family hasn't been there.

Nita

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

I agree that these laws are too harsh, and pointless.

For one thing, it costs tax payers a lot of money.

Prison also makes these criminals much, much more hardcore. If you send a petty robber to prison for a while. He will often come out with a murderers mindset, which he learned inside prison. In this way, prison creates a more violent society. Prison is basically like criminal college, they learn the tricks, make connections, learn new crimes, etc. And these days there are a LOT of people getting this kind of education.

For 2 robbery charges and evading arrest, I can understand maybe 5-7 years, but 25? That is a looooong time for that. by about the 10th year I think the lesson has been learned.

There does need to be a distinction between violent and non-violent crimes. You can be young, immature and wreckless, like lots of us were, and go away for life for petty reasons.

I also think we need to change the way our prisons operate so people stay out of them in the first place and don't come out even worse. But that's another topic.

Brutal, long, strict punishment isn't the answer and it is obviously not working. We need a new approach.

and what would you suggest???