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Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keroppininja
Seeing the benefits of this bill would only take as long as it would take the market to be set up and licensed. People regardless would be able to cultivate in their own homes right away or continue to do so and as we all know, there is already an unlicensed thriving market with plenty of supply to start out with.
Not surprised at all but a little dissapointed that people are still buying into the BS that people can't think for themselves if they choose to drink or smoke, enjoying alcohol or cannabis doesn't prevent anyone from knowing or figuring our what is going on around them politically. That is purely an argument on the discussion of the lack of will people have on an individual basis, to educate themselves on current issues; even if we lived in an age of total prohibition, people would still be willfully oblivious to the issues around them.
What the hell does that have to do with anything, an attempt to dilute the issue with absolute nonsense?
Alot of this is probably cultural too. The use of alcohol and all the attitudes and lore surrounding it go way back in American & European culture. While the use of something like marijuana, no matter how relatively benign, is only gradually entering the awareness of mainstream & popular culture, and will take awhile to acquire the same sort of "familiarity" that alcohol now enjoys.
And they're both very different sorts of intoxicants, in terms of the personality types, social settings, uses, lifestyles, etc. that are usually attracted to each. Plus the "culture" surrounding marijuana is arguably a much more complex one. For example, there are occasional associations made between cannabis use and "spirituality" (i.e. Rastafarians), while I've never heard that sort of association made with alcohol (or maybe it just wasn't, um, "uplifting" enough)!
A recent Field Poll (http://www.newsweek.com//frameset.aspx/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.field.com%2Ffieldpollonline% 2Fsubscribers%2FRls2306.pdf - broken link) found 56 percent of Californians backing legalization and taxing of marijuana. If the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act is approved by voters in November, what'll things look like afterwards... for taxes, the economy, pot-related businesses (new & old), society, etc.?
the good- lots of tax $$$$$ for a state that's broke
the bad- if employers have to stop testing for marijauna the amount of stoners will double in california overnight making life for non smokers in CA a varitable living hell!
Uh, we are skipping the preface of all of this. Why is it the government's role (federal or state) to tell an indivdual human what he or she can or cannot put into his or her own body?
Protect me as a consumer of goods, like food and drug regulation. Protect me with a military and/or police. Build roads, damns, infastructure. Provide safety-net services for the population at large (like SS, Medicare). Do all of this with my tax dollars that I put in, that is all good.
But do not tell me what I can or cannot do with my own body. If what I do has the potential to directly physically harm someone else, such as driving drunk or high, then arrest me. But there is no reason in hell that I should be worried about being arrested for smoking (or in prohibition days, drinking) in my own house or in areas designated ok by the general public.
/rant over
AMEN! We don't need a nanny gov't controlling our private lives whether it's pot, gay marriage, tobacco or alcohol. I would draw the line at cocaine, heroin and other hard drugs that can kill quickly and are a clear menace to society.
the good- lots of tax $$$$$ for a state that's broke
the bad- if employers have to stop testing for marijauna the amount of stoners will double in california overnight making life for non smokers in CA a varitable living hell!
Well, considering MJ being legal and the high chance of secondhand high from all nearby smokers, the number of non-smokers who wouldn't be high enough to get upset would be fairly small!
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos
AMEN! We don't need a nanny gov't controlling our private lives whether it's pot, gay marriage, tobacco or alcohol. I would draw the line at cocaine, heroin and other hard drugs that can kill quickly and are a clear menace to society.
See, you cannot let weed out of the bag and assume coke, heroin and even crack will remain behind, they would most certainly be out soon after and that is when hell would break lose! Which may not be so bad, considering 6 billion inhabitants residing on a planet that might have been designed for not more than a couple billion, I am fine is a few thousand dies off of drugs a long as they are not taking anyone (who didn't wanna go) along with them.
I am not anti MJ, I do not smoke weed or cigarettes or even drink (yes, my life is boring as hell) but do I dare try to tell or control what others should be doing with their own life and body as long as it doesn't affect others in any rational way.
Government has stuck its nose in to way too many things whether it did it by itself or people and States made it that way but that is an ugly fact and I seriously doubt they will ever retract from what ever they already have the control over.
Like C.R. once said in one of his shows, I doubt they will ever make weed legal unless they could control the sales/taxing of it like they do with regular tobacco.
No government will ever allow anything for the sake and happiness of its citizens, if it ever does, it is because it is profitable and fully controllable by them before anything else.
Alot of this is probably cultural too. The use of alcohol and all the attitudes and lore surrounding it go way back in American & European culture. While the use of something like marijuana, no matter how relatively benign, is only gradually entering the awareness of mainstream & popular culture, and will take awhile to acquire the same sort of "familiarity" that alcohol now enjoys.
And they're both very different sorts of intoxicants, in terms of the personality types, social settings, uses, lifestyles, etc. that are usually attracted to each. Plus the "culture" surrounding marijuana is arguably a much more complex one. For example, there are occasional associations made between cannabis use and "spirituality" (i.e. Rastafarians), while I've never heard that sort of association made with alcohol (or maybe it just wasn't, um, "uplifting" enough)!
Actually Cannabis has a very rich cultural heritage in both the US and Europe and even more so in other areas of the world, many just don't acknowledge it and our government has purposely tried to prevent this knowledge from becoming accepted by "mainstream" through prohibition. Many of the founding fathers had Cannabis/Hemp plantations, with George Washington being the most famous of them.
Take hemp rope for example, up until even recently any sea faring vessel used hemp rope; in regards to smoking cannabis going beyond our borders in the past, think of Pirates as a good example. Recent underwater excavations in Jamaica have found large amounts of hand blown glass pipes that tested positive for Cannabis residue and have been dated back to when Jamaica was a haven for European originated pirates.
There many cases of both being used in a spiritual sense, you must of heard of Christians and their wine used during communion? Obvious reference but there are more of course and the same is true with Cannabis. There are a lot of good books about the subject, all easy to find on the internet but not at your public library hmmm coincidence??
There are books that show the history of prohibition also and its effects, these to are pretty interesting for those interested the history of cut throat industrialism and corrupt politics; both of which surround the criminalization of hemp and cannabis in this country.
Quote:
See, you cannot let weed out of the bag and assume coke, heroin and even crack will remain behind, they would most certainly be out soon after and that is when hell would break lose!
I personally disagree, considering that prohibition and the drug war relies on hiding the truth from people and while it is a war that can never be won. The only way to free any substance out from under the war and legalize, would be to either have all of the nation take on true personal responsibility or show the truth about the substance you are trying to legalize. Since the first option is nigh impossible regardless of the substance, it is of no use and the second option about speaking the truth and benefits of a particular substance only works for those that actually have a benefit to society. Which I think we can all agree that cocain(crack is cocain btw)heroin, meth and the like do not hold any benefit for society(in fact they are very destructive on an obvious level)so they would nigh impossible to argue for their legalization truthfully, without relying on the first argument of personal responsibility.
Last edited by keroppininja; 04-16-2010 at 10:20 PM..
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by keroppininja
Actually Cannabis has a very rich cultural heritage in both the US and Europe and even more so in other areas of the world, many just don't acknowledge it and our government has purposely tried to prevent this knowledge from becoming accepted by "mainstream" through prohibition. Many of the founding fathers had Cannabis/Hemp plantations, with George Washington being the most famous of them.
Take hemp rope for example, up until even recently any sea faring vessel used hemp rope; in regards to smoking cannabis going beyond our borders in the past, think of Pirates as a good example. Recent underwater excavations in Jamaica have found large amounts of hand blown glass pipes that tested positive for Cannabis residue and have been dated back to when Jamaica was a haven for European originated pirates.
There many cases of both being used in a spiritual sense, you must of heard of Christians and their wine used during communion? Obvious reference but there are more of course and the same is true with Cannabis. There are a lot of good books about the subject, all easy to find on the internet but not at your public library hmmm coincidence??
There are books that show the history of prohibition also and its effects, these to are pretty interesting for those interested the history of cut throat industrialism and corrupt politics; both of which surround the criminalization of hemp and cannabis in this country.
Am aware of the connection between wine and communion, although I think that's largely a symbolic association with Christ's blood, unlike say the Rastafarians who specifically use marijuana to get high (aka closer to "Jah")! And in Hindu culture, marijuana goes all the way back the Vedas, where it's first associated with the god Indra, and hashish is called "Indracense", meaning "incense of Indra". Some scholars think it might even have been the mythical drug "Soma", mentioned in the Rig Veda.
No doubt it was also used in the New World (even aside from growing hemp), and cocaine briefly enjoyed popular & "medicinal uses" (Drink Coca-Cola!). But clearly alcohol has always been the dominant "intoxicant" in the U.S., going back to the first English, Scotts & Irish colonists, who brought their skills at making whiskey with them from the British Isles. Along with that also came local taverns, drinking as part of social customs, plus all the drinking songs, literature & lore, and a certain popular "tolerance" for alcoholic inebriation in general. And of course Johnny Appleseed became famous not by planting marijuana, but because those appletrees became the gift of alcohol to the frontier!
But yes, I do agree that marijuana did eventually become "stigmatized" for reasons of "profit & politics", and mostly by its then association with black culture & musicians.
Am aware of the connection between wine and communion, although I think that's largely a symbolic association with Christ's blood, unlike say the Rastafarians who specifically use marijuana to get high (aka closer to "Jah")! And in Hindu culture, marijuana goes all the way back the Vedas, where it's first associated with the god Indra, and hashish is called "Indracense", meaning "incense of Indra". Some scholars think it might even have been the mythical drug "Soma", mentioned in the Rig Veda.
No doubt it was also used in the New World (even aside from growing hemp), and cocaine briefly enjoyed popular & "medicinal uses" (Drink Coca-Cola!). But clearly alcohol has always been the dominant "intoxicant" in the U.S., going back to the first English, Scotts & Irish colonists, who brought their skills at making whiskey with them from the British Isles. Along with that also came local taverns, drinking as part of social customs, plus all the drinking songs, literature & lore, and a certain popular "tolerance" for alcoholic inebriation in general. And of course Johnny Appleseed became famous not by planting marijuana, but because those appletrees became the gift of alcohol to the frontier!
But yes, I do agree that marijuana did eventually become "stigmatized" for reasons of "profit & politics", and mostly by its then association with black culture & musicians.
"I like Pollan's Johnny Appleseed much better than the Disney version." Dito
There is no doubt that Alcohol is #1 when it comes to the inebriation of the US. Hell, I'm drinking Glenfiddich 18 right now lol..
Anyways.. this is an easy one people; the impact will be a good one if only to see the violent criminals stay behind bars instead of being freed to make room for possession cases.
Seeing the benefits of this bill would only take as long as it would take the market to be set up and licensed. People regardless would be able to cultivate in their own homes right away or continue to do so and as we all know, there is already an unlicensed thriving market with plenty of supply to start out with.
Not surprised at all but a little dissapointed that people are still buying into the BS that people can't think for themselves if they choose to drink or smoke, enjoying alcohol or cannabis doesn't prevent anyone from knowing or figuring our what is going on around them politically. That is purely an argument on the discussion of the lack of will people have on an individual basis, to educate themselves on current issues; even if we lived in an age of total prohibition, people would still be willfully oblivious to the issues around them.
What the hell does that have to do with anything, an attempt to dilute the issue with absolute nonsense?
Absolute nonsense to you no doubt but I think that voluntary users of illegal drugs should pay an extra premium on medical insurance.
Absolute nonsense to you no doubt but I think that voluntary users of illegal drugs should pay an extra premium on medical insurance.
How about tobacco users or fast food junkies or alcohol users or high risk sports participants? In any case cannabis use has never been correlated with increased health problems. Just the opposite.
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If marijuana is legalized in November, what do you think will be the impact?
Something akin to Reagan's line, "Well, there you go again!" 
