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Right now my back of the napkin calculations show about 60-70% of my income will free up if I go fulltime in a van for most people it will be closer to 30-40%, but in the last 3-4 years there has been an explosion of middle income 40-55 year old Telecommuters and 20Somthing remote workers who have joined the nomad caravan and I'm thinking at some point states and corporations will start to view this subculture as a resource to exploit, right now governments are trying to penalize people who live in their vehicles by passing laws left and right, but as more so-called "respectable people" join the life will campgrounds both state and private start raising fee's as to only attract a certain "type" of nomad? will we start seeing stricter rules about the condition our rigs must be in at many campgrounds? Will the Nomad community start to form a class system like the rest of population? I know there kinda is one now but not to the same extent as there is in the S&B world as all the groups still seem to interact with each other at the gatherings.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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More costly?
Have you checked the price of Campervans lately? Hope you already have yours (2 yrs ago). Wish I had all my previous ones! Many of us have BTDT in the 1960's and 70's.
It is a very short-term thing, as it is not that easy or pleasant for most people.
Fuel, and camping is NOT cheap now and will double in the next few yrs.
I can live quite inexpensively in my cabin, while my main home is rented out and taxes and utilities are paid and I get huge depreciation losses + equity earned on asset. + all the deductions of travel, repairs, improvements.
Still have several RV and traveling options, but they are much more expensive for me to use than my cabin and workshop.
Multiply that with a few cabins in nice climates at various pristine locations... and you can have some REAL income (no J-O-B required.) and deductible travel& 50% of food costs while traveling and seeing the sights between cabins.
Have you checked the price of Campervans lately? Hope you already have yours (2 yrs ago). Wish I had all my previous ones! Many of us have BTDT in the 1960's and 70's.
It is a very short-term thing, as it is not that easy or pleasant for most people.
Fuel, and camping is NOT cheap now and will double in the next few yrs.
I can live quite inexpensively in my cabin, while my main home is rented out and taxes and utilities are paid and I get huge depreciation losses + equity earned on asset. + all the deductions of travel, repairs, improvements.
Still have several RV and traveling options, but they are much more expensive for me to use than my cabin and workshop.
Multiply that with a few cabins in nice climates at various pristine locations... and you can have some REAL income (no J-O-B required.) and deductible travel& 50% of food costs while traveling and seeing the sights between cabins.
When people say van living is cheaper, they are mostly talking about cheaper compared to a cheap apartment in a large of midsized city, yes a cabin in the woods 10 miles past BFE would be cheaper than van life(if vanlife for you is paid campsite to paid campsite), but the taxes for your cabin will shoot up as soon as someone builds a Walmart and developers start building houses within 15 miles of you. It's happened to people I know who moved out to BFE to "get way from it all" and "it all" found them a few years to a few decades later.
Increased demand normally results in higher prices, however it can also make mass production practical and that will lower prices. Also an increase in demand based on television show depicting a fantasy lifestyle results in a larger number of lightly used vehicles and equipment on the market after people encounter reality. That drives prices down in the used market. Unlike cars now days, RVs still drop in price massively in the first year or two. That is in part because many people pay way more than they need to when they buy them now. The RV sellers put crazy high prices on them because some people will pay that or close to it without investigating. For example, although a completely different class of motorhome - we looked at an Entegra that had a $740,000 sticker on it. Digging into it we found that you can buy them for $450,000, sometimes a little less, but more commonly around $500,000. That is new. So if someone does not do their homework and pays $650,000 for a motorhome that you can get for $450,000 new. They will freak out when they try to sell it used for $450,000 and people only offer around $250,000. They figure they skillfully negotiated $100,000 off the price, how can they possible lose so much value in three years.
The same thing happens with converted vans. We bought one long ago (2000) that had a $48,000 sticker on it. we knew that dealers get them converted and mark them up massively for big profits, but then at the end of the year, they need to sell off any they have left so they can pay for the base van. We ended up getting the van for $32,000 which was actually below the base van sticker. Why? not because we were brilliant negotiators, but because of timing and being patient. So if I am selling my van that I bought for $32,000 a few years later, someone else who is selling the same van they "bargained" to a price of $45,000 is going to take a huge hit.
The point is - buy used. Be patient and shop around. There are going to be a ton of campervans on the market soon. Once people learn the glorified "van life" is not what it is shown to be on TV, they will be dumping them at much lowered prices.
Increased demand normally results in higher prices, however it can also make mass production practical and that will lower prices. Also an increase in demand based on television show depicting a fantasy lifestyle results in a larger number of lightly used vehicles and equipment on the market after people encounter reality. That drives prices down in the used market. Unlike cars now days, RVs still drop in price massively in the first year or two. That is in part because many people pay way more than they need to when they buy them now. The RV sellers put crazy high prices on them because some people will pay that or close to it without investigating. For example, although a completely different class of motorhome - we looked at an Entegra that had a $740,000 sticker on it. Digging into it we found that you can buy them for $450,000, sometimes a little less, but more commonly around $500,000. That is new. So if someone does not do their homework and pays $650,000 for a motorhome that you can get for $450,000 new. They will freak out when they try to sell it used for $450,000 and people only offer around $250,000. They figure they skillfully negotiated $100,000 off the price, how can they possible lose so much value in three years.
The same thing happens with converted vans. We bought one long ago (2000) that had a $48,000 sticker on it. we knew that dealers get them converted and mark them up massively for big profits, but then at the end of the year, they need to sell off any they have left so they can pay for the base van. We ended up getting the van for $32,000 which was actually below the base van sticker. Why? not because we were brilliant negotiators, but because of timing and being patient. So if I am selling my van that I bought for $32,000 a few years later, someone else who is selling the same van they "bargained" to a price of $45,000 is going to take a huge hit.
The point is - buy used. Be patient and shop around. There are going to be a ton of campervans on the market soon. Once people learn the glorified "van life" is not what it is shown to be on TV, they will be dumping them at much lowered prices.
you make a good point, and with the influx of middle income telecommuting vandwellers who figured out they can afford to own a home and travel once a year for a week or so on a budget, or travel year around in style if they live in their van, with those people even if they do take to vanlife they will more likely be the type to replace their vans every 4-5 years(with another 10-15 years of life left in said van that's now back on the market), where as now the majority of van dwellers will drive the same van until the wheels fall off, and that van ends up in the scrapyard. So while the yuppy vandweller's will drive up costs at campgrounds(as campgrounds learn they can make more money off of them and start discouraging the dwellers in the typically old beat up vans) they may bring down the cost of entry to vanlife in general as more "used and already customized" vans enter the market.
I have noticed places I camp at are adding more amenities at cost targeting a certain type of camper.
We are on the road again and I'm seeing an explosion of Sprinter based small Class C and medium/large Class B camper vans versus last year. These are all pretty new and aren't cheap to buy even if they're comparatively cheap to operate.
We are on the road again and I'm seeing an explosion of Sprinter based small Class C and medium/large Class B camper vans versus last year. These are all pretty new and aren't cheap to buy even if they're comparatively cheap to operate.
But they are cheaper than most RV's but yes they are most likely owned by telecommuters with decent salaries.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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I just looked at the website of the place where we bought our 25' trailer in 2017. The same model is about $8k higher priced, and only one in stock, but showing 4 "on order." It's really becoming no different than the housing situation, demand exceeding supply, driving up prices. When it comes to campgrounds, you can expect the same thing to happen this spring and summer. When they have a backlog of people wanting to get a space, they can raise the prices dramatically and still fill them up. Even accessories and service prices will go up, as all of these buyers start to need things.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
... It's really becoming no different than the housing situation, demand exceeding supply, driving up prices. When it comes to campgrounds, you can expect the same thing to happen this spring and summer. When they have a backlog of people wanting to get a space, they can raise the prices dramatically and still fill them up. Even accessories and service prices will go up, as all of these buyers start to need things.
and then... It will all be OVER! (Quite quickly I predict)
Had I have known... (I was looking into purchasing a few campgrounds years ago, but interviewing Camp Hosts solved that idea real fast). Would have been a good call financially, but I am done accumulating and grateful for that. Tho picked up a few bargain investment 'spec' props for safe keeping / inflation hedge. (no renters, no labor inputs required at the moment).
Can't complain on other investments (at the moment)
Would be simple to do via 'Van Life'. No J-O-B required.
When I see YouTube videos of some of the van conversions that are so incredibly expensive, and I think of the car payment and the insurance and how there is zero appreciation, I fret for some of these people tossing away their hard-earned money.
There's always a cheaper way to do things. The smart people are the ones who aren't paying $50,000 to someone to convert the van, on top of the cost of the van.
I also wonder about all that weight! All that wood and subway tile. They must get about 5 miles to the gallon, don't you think? Plus, the super high top ones can't fit into any garage.
I'm actually considering buying a Ford Transit, probably just the little Connect, and just throwing a nice deluxe air mattress in it and some plastic drawers and a bucket toilet with kitty litter in it, and a fantastic fan or two, probably, and just take a battery power pack to charge my devices, etc. Light, functional and cheap. But, I'm just going to use mine for traveling, not living in full-time.
I think a lot of people are planning on rarely using campgrounds and hope to stealth park. Around here, the cops pretty much turn a blind eye unless someone complains about a vehicle/camper making themselves at home for too long, setting out camp chairs, etc.
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(at the moment)
