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Perhaps Canadian healthcare and labour policies are average? Examining how other countries outperform Canada would be advantageous. I think Canada's performance is often evaluated alongside the United States. Why? Canada could learn more from elsewhere.
No doubt we could learn more by looking at other countries but there are actual reasons for why Canadians compare themselves to Americans as opposed to Norwegians.
It's the only country we border.
Our origins are similar.
We speak the same language.
We marry Americans. The border was fluid in the early part of the 20th century. You didn't need to immigrate. We have relatives and friends in America. We marry Americans. They marry us.
We holiday in America. We have learned to take out travel health insurance.
They are in our face. Is it natural for you to compare yourself to YOUR cousin or to My cousin? When the world was smaller, which wasn't that long ago, it was the only option for comparison. Comparing ourselves to Norwegians might as well have been comparing earth to the moon.
They are a world power. Even the Norwegians can't completely ignore the Americans, no matter where they are located.
No doubt we could learn more by looking at other countries but there are actual reasons for why Canadians compare themselves to Americans as opposed to Norwegians.
It's the only country we border.
Our origins are similar.
We speak the same language.
We marry Americans. The border was fluid in the early part of the 20th century. You didn't need to immigrate. We have relatives and friends in America. We marry Americans. They marry us.
We holiday in America. We have learned to take out travel health insurance.
They are in our face. Is it natural for you to compare yourself to YOUR cousin or to My cousin? When the world was smaller, which wasn't that long ago, it was the only option for comparison. Comparing ourselves to Norwegians might as well have been comparing earth to the moon.
They are a world power. Even the Norwegians can't completely ignore the Americans, no matter where they are located.
Not to mention we consume (or are consumed by) their media.
In fact I've noticed our Canadian newscasts devote quite a bit of air time to US news
almost to the point where you'd think they're part of Canada.
Canadian can't but know whats going on down there,
and understandably US news programs rarely mention anything going on
north of the border.
and understandably US news programs rarely mention anything going on
north of the border.
'cept when a blizzard or cold front is heading toward the Bos-Wash corridor, then its invariably coming from Canada or ''that giant ice box to the north'' as some of them like to say.
As a Canadian who originally moved to the U.S. in 1980, I'll be honest that I have thought about moving back many times, especially over the last decade. Because I am married to an American, the process of sponsoring my spouse is simply too challenging. It's not like we can decide to move to Canada, pack and cross the border. Instead, the process can take years. That's still simply too long in holding mode for regular middle class families with work and family requirements - and don't get me started on the invasive questions and ridiculous documentation Immigration Canada asks for.
Additionally, I've seen first-hand the medical treatment my relatives back in Canada receive. I can get an MRI in a day, sometimes same day. My cousin waited for over a year. My uncle waited 6 months for some prostate treatment, and my stepfather here in the US had the exact same treatment within days of diagnosis. My stepfather also had to advise my uncle of some medication that would help him, becasue my uncle was told there was nothing available. My uncle took the information back to his Canadian doctor who told him the medication was not allowed. Really?
The medical system in Canada is troubling, but after living in the States, I would have no problem crossing the border and paying for medical treatment in the States for serious issues. That is something that my Canadian relatives simply won't consider. They politely wait their turn and think I'm crazy for paying for medical services. I find it amazing when they refuse or complain about having to pay for anything health related and not covered by the government.
Growing up in Canada in the 60s and 70s provided me with a fantastic childhood. I look forward to retirement and the opportunity to visit (up to 6 months at a time and no paperwork!) the places that I love in Canada, but still "live" in the States. It's just easier that way.
So back to the whole "comparing" stuff, I'm just wondering who gets the blame for this comparison? The above poster as a Canadian, or the self-same poster as an American?
However, more specifically wrt your comments (the above was a question to anyone reading or participating in this thread) the trouble with the sort of comparison that Americans often make (getting an MRI in a day) is that Canadians live longer and are healthier than Americans. So clearly whatever waiting there is isn't something that affects lifespan. And no, I don't believe Canada has the best system in the world. We are just so much better than the U.S. which is an outlier in terms of seeing health care as a right. If there are comparisons to be made, it is shock that Americans see nothing wrong with health being a privilege of wealth. But Canadians are hardly alone in their shock and horror.
And the fact that Americans see it as a plus to get a next day diagnosis for a minor, non-life threatening ailment tends to get a shrug from most Canadians. Now we can all come up with medical errors no matter what country people live in so I'm going to refrain from bringing up examples although there are examples of Americans waiting for treatment in the Health and Caregiving forums on this very forum.
As far as medication being available or not, I was quite amazed to find when I popped into a pharmacy in the States to ask for Tylenol 1 which contains a small amount of codeine and is readily available in Canada without a prescription only to discover it is not available over the counter in the US. On another occasion I was equally surprised to discover that Robaxacet, a mild muscle relaxant plus pain reliever is also not available in the US without a prescription.
Statistical differences in these areas are often not related to the health care system.
For example, Americans, in general, are more obese and that has nothing to do with health care.
Life span is as close as we can get to evaluating a health care system.
You would argue that obesity isn't related to health care and yet to an extent it is because where are the stats on obesity rates for people who have regular doctor visits and proactive health care versus obese people who don't go to the doctor because they can't afford it, or believe they can't afford it? How high would Canada's life span averages be if we just eliminated fat people from the stats?
I've also seen it argued that the stats don't show the true statistics because it would be more valid if they just eliminated poor black people.
Anyway, both countries have good health care to offer it's just that one chooses not to, although my understanding is that it varies from state to state. I don't have terribly much interest in how the U.S. settles what the rest of the western world settled a long time ago.
And no, I don't think Canada has the best health care. But it's not weird for us to be shocked by the worst health care system when it is sitting right next door. I do believe that our system needs an overhaul. I do believe we should look at how other countries do their health care, but obviously the US is not an example to follow.
I had great health care in Germany. I never needed health care in France.
Life span is as close as we can get to evaluating a health care system.
You would argue that obesity isn't related to health care and yet to an extent it is because where are the stats on obesity rates for people who have regular doctor visits and proactive health care versus obese people who don't go to the doctor because they can't afford it, or believe they can't afford it? How high would Canada's life span averages be if we just eliminated fat people from the stats?
I've also seen it argued that the stats don't show the true statistics because it would be more valid if they just eliminated poor black people.
Anyway, both countries have good health care to offer it's just that one chooses not to, although my understanding is that it varies from state to state. I don't have terribly much interest in how the U.S. settles what the rest of the western world settled a long time ago.
And no, I don't think Canada has the best health care. But it's not weird for us to be shocked by the worst health care system when it is sitting right next door. I do believe that our system needs an overhaul. I do believe we should look at how other countries do their health care, but obviously the US is not an example to follow.
I had great health care in Germany. I never needed health care in France.
The problem with the US healthcare and insurance is paying and dealing with insurance and if one lacks it. Quality of its Hospitals? Is NOT the issue. Nor is access to Hospitals near and clinics.
No Canadian travels to the US and buys the added insurance to be covered in the States .... and worries if the need to use it? The QUALITY or ACCESS will be lacking? They don't and it isn't. No Canadian moves to the US worrying on Quality of care available.
I won't go into more as not the topic of the thread. Just addressing QUALITY is not the issue as its a internal problem on accessing care with insurance to Sate and Government programs. Still the vast majority of the people manage to get care when needed .... just not without red tape and debt issues they may end up with.
The poor actually on government assistance are the group who get it free and no child does without. .... like our Congressmen and Top politicians .....
The problem with the US healthcare and insurance is paying and dealing with insurance and if one lacks it. Quality of its Hospitals? Is NOT the issue. Nor is access to Hospitals near and clinics.
No Canadian travels to the US and buys the added insurance to be covered in the States .... and worries if the need to use it? The QUALITY or ACCESS will be lacking? They don't and it isn't. No Canadian moves to the US worrying on Quality of care available.
I won't go into more as not the topic of the thread. Just addressing QUALITY is not the issue as its a internal problem on accessing care with insurance to Sate and Government programs. Still the vast majority of the people manage to get care when needed .... just not without red tape and debt issues they may end up with.
The poor actually on government assistance are the group who get it free and no child does without. .... like our Congressmen and Top politicians .....
Most of what you state makes sense except ...
"No Canadian travels to the US and buys the added insurance to be covered in the States....."
That I don't agree with. Canadians, including me, sometimes do buy added insurance to be
covered in the States.
Additional bummer for some Canadians when they reach their golden years and want live part of the year in the States is that the health insurance premiums dramatically increase in cost over age 76.
Some older Canadians would love to snowbird in the US south but after age 76 have to think twice
as they may not have the money to pay for rent and health insurance and have to make do
living full time in cold winter Canada
"No Canadian travels to the US and buys the added insurance to be covered in the States....."
That I don't agree with. Canadians, including me, sometimes do buy added insurance to be
covered in the States.
Additional bummer for some Canadians when they reach their golden years and want live part of the year in the States is that the health insurance premiums dramatically increase in cost over age 76.
Some older Canadians would love to snowbird in the US south but after age 76 have to think twice
as they may not have the money to pay for rent and health insurance and have to make do
living full time in cold winter Canada
In fact everyone I know does. The provincial government only covers so much out of country. Stories abound of Canadians not getting proper insurance before travelling, only to find out they owe thousands.
My father is an example of how valuable it is to get extra coverage. He got sick in California. Spent 5 days in the Palm Springs hospital where they misdiagnosed him. Insurance company naturally didn't want to keep paying the thousands to keep him in Palm Springs. They air ambulance him back to BC. The bill was over 100,000 !
His insurance covered it all.
Unfortunately after being property diagnose he passed. Just to note, even if they got the diagnosis correct in Palm Springs, there still was nothing to be done.
The problem with the US healthcare and insurance is paying and dealing with insurance and if one lacks it. Quality of its Hospitals? Is NOT the issue. Nor is access to Hospitals near and clinics.
No Canadian travels to the US and buys the added insurance to be covered in the States .... and worries if the need to use it? The QUALITY or ACCESS will be lacking? They don't and it isn't. No Canadian moves to the US worrying on Quality of care available.
I won't go into more as not the topic of the thread. Just addressing QUALITY is not the issue as its a internal problem on accessing care with insurance to Sate and Government programs. Still the vast majority of the people manage to get care when needed .... just not without red tape and debt issues they may end up with.
The poor actually on government assistance are the group who get it free and no child does without. .... like our Congressmen and Top politicians .....
That's what I said. That quality of care is not in question in either the States or Canada.
However, EVERY Canadian I know buys travel insurance when travellng to the States. If something happened to them, they don't want to pay $$$. But if you're talking about people who MOVE to the States, that's a totally different situation. I would assume they had a job in the States and medical coverage to go with it. It's not quality of care that is in question. It's the ability to pay for it.
ETA: my post referred to the health care system not the quality of health care.
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That's what I said. That quality of care is not in question in either the States or Canada.