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Well, I do that a little with my daughter. Not the same way, but it is the same dynamic, wanting to maintain control and yet having her take control of my problems.
I know it is a pain, and from one read I am far from sure there is as much similar as I assume?
I do tell my sister she does not take care of businesses and is irresponsible, when I know damn well she is very responsible! My sister does not tell her because she knows it is nonsense.
I feel like I am not the big matriarch anymore, she is now and I resent it.
She has my place and I do not think she is as able as I once was, even though the point is irrelevant. This is not a contest; it is my loss of health, youth and pride.
Sometimes I do push her too far and she blows up at me, and it is remarkable how fast I get rational and explain myself.
Does this sound at all relevant?
I'm sorry - somehow I missed your post. Please don't take offense at that - I'm dealing with too much of that as it is!
I don't know if this is relevant or not. Are you bipolar and refusing to treat that condition? Have you had a stroke which affected your ability to reason but did not affect in any way your language skills - leaving the ability to cut people to the very core with venomous words that really have no basis in reality? If so, then yes, I guess the situations might be similar. If not - maybe only similar on the surface.
My mother has always been a sort of "she wolf." Very fierce, very territorial, very beautiful and fearless and tough - and very prone to attack others.
I am simply not wired together that way and never have been. I also do not have any mental health conditions which further complicate the situation. From a very early age, I knew that I was strong in a different way from my mother. I also knew I was not at all like my mother. And as I matured, I was more and more glad that I wasn't like my mother - though she has some very admirable traits. I can admire her good traits (stamina, bravery, intelligence, beauty, creativity for example) without being jealous of them.
This is not the case with her toward me. She has always fought between a mother's love for her child (which I do believe she has always felt), and her inability to understand and accept that while I am her child, I am not like her - I'm my own person with my own personality, strengths, opinions, etc and where I differ from her is not any sort of personal rejection of her. She truly can't seem to grasp the concept of children not being carbon copies of their parents. She has always LOVED babies and very small kids - because they don't challenge her in any way. They acquiesce. They submit. They love freely and openly and without reservation. When they get old enough to speak their own mind, or to disagree, or to embrace ideas, values, or even INTERESTS that differ from hers, she feels threatened and personally rejected and insulted - and the degradation of the relationship begins.
We're talking about a woman who threw a Ray Bradberry book at my head when I was 13 years old - right out of the blue (I was sitting on the sofa reading and had no idea I was about to get hit in the head with a book thrown from across the room). She threw it at my head and then stood up and said, regally, "I don't understand how you can read such drivel. How can you possibly relate to that style of writing?" (I was on a Ray Bradberry kick at the time.) "You are NOTHING like me. Do you realize that? NOTHING like me - I will never understand how your brain works." All this over the fact that I liked an author that she didn't care for?????? WHAT THE HECK!
My grandkids love me. They also love her. I think that's great! But guess what. When my four month old grandson sees me, he immediately breaks out into a huge, toothless grin and starts kicking and waving his arms - for some reason I really get him animated, and it's very clear that he loves being around me. I think it's adorable! He really is a cheerful baby and would probably do that with any number of people, but I admit that he seems to really react strongly to my presence. Well, you should see the glaring look on her face when that happens. If my daughter says, "Oh look baby - there's your MIMI!" and he begins to grin and kick and coo, my mother will sit on that sofa and just glare at us. If he starts crying when she's holding him, she will say something along the lines of "Well, I'm sorry I'm not your MIMI. Here - take him - clearly he wants you." Come on. Clearly he's teething.
So to answer your question - maybe your point is relevant. I see some similarities in your reactions and what I'm seeing in my mother. I'm sorry I'm 23 years younger than her and that I'm still really active and healthy. Actually no I'm not sorry - it's just the reality of the situation. I am not jealous of my daughters - I can't relate to that. They are both beautiful, with gorgeous, youthful figures and all the vitality of young, strong women in their early 30s. They are both married to very handsome, charming and youthful husbands. Their kids adore them. I can't imagine being jealous of them or of their place. I know I'm next in line when it comes to aging and health issues. I don't look 35 anymore - I look my age - mid fifties. I'm matronly - I'm not the "beauty" I once was. SO THE HECK WHAT.
In fact, my mother and my daughters have all been blessed more abundantly with striking good looks than I ever have been. Without exception, all three of them (and my dad for that matter) have always been EXTREMELY good looking people - literally stop people in their tracks good looking. I'm definitely the plainer of the bunch and that's OK. I have other talents that I'm very grateful for and which I've built my identity and life on.
Your reactions and thoughts may be similar to my mother's, but if that's the case, I still can't really relate well to them. This is an alien thought pattern to me. I guess I just can't relate to the whole "matriarch" thing. I don't want that role necessarily - it seems like a pretty big burden if "done correctly," and I'm uninterested in the honor and accolades and all that that apparently go along with it - I just want to relate to other adults in the family adult to adult - and to have little kids in the family be respectful in the form of being obedient and fairly well behaved around me. I don't need or want people fussing over me or pulling chairs out for me or whatever it is that people do with matriarchs. So I guess I'm having a hard time meeting my own mother's expectations in that regard - because to answer your relevancy question fully, yes, my mother DOES seem to relish the matriarch role and she seems pretty jealous and very easily threatened by non threatening elements (such as a baby crying, or someone liking an author she doesn't like).
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 03-08-2016 at 09:34 AM..
Is it still possible for you to take that mini-vacation and let your daughter take over her grandma's care (since she does it so well ) ? I bet that after the hospital/rehab center calls her a few times at 4:30 AM to rush in she may change her mind on how much you really do.
Oh, we're taking that mini vacation sometime in the next two or three months, believe me!
Now perhaps you understand why I take an old world stick in the mud like Seann Dublin to task so much.
We are not all blessed with straight forward relationships with our parents.
As a result, some of us have purposely made such relationships distant and cold, the fewer dealings the better.
Outsiders may look at this and assume "elder" abuse, but how can it be, when the relationship morphed into something that is even lower than a friend relationship? Really just an acquaintance relationship.
Oh I agree - and for the record I have never NOT understood where you're coming from, to my recollection. I have never taken the stance of "they're your parents, they took care of you now it's your turn to take care of them," and have often condemned that sort of black and white thought pattern on this forum. There are too many variables.
For instance, in my family, my mother was not particularly physically abusive to me (other than the very occasional thrown object) - her tactic with me was to endlessly lecture me, so I learned very early on how to lay low, be obedient, be quiet, just don't give her anything to react to - and I was able to fly under the radar till I was in my teens, when hormones and frustration came more to the forefront.
And when my mom was not gripped in the cycle of bipolar disorder (or just at the front end of the manic side of the cycle), she was a WONDERFUL mother and I mean that sincerely. She was creative, interactive, fun, glamorous, eloquent, adventurous - she would throw parties, host sleepovers for hordes of kids, take us exploring down country roads or across the state, teach me to cook and bake and paint and sew, take us on interesting vacations, and allow us to experience so many terrific things. So in spite of her "bad" times, I also have many exciting, wonderful memories of adventures with my two young, vibrant parents.
It was like living with Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde. When I watched the movie "Sophie's Choice," with it's heartbreaking portrayal of life with a person struggling with bipolar disorder and a manic/depressive cycle, I was struck speechless. THERE IT WAS. The beauty - and the madness.
I can't just throw the good out with the bad when it comes to my mom. I understand other people having a different reaction though, and I don't judge them. I'm a very strong person - I always have been. I feel more pity than anything else for my mother now - but that doesn't mean she doesn't frustrate the absolute living hell out of me sometimes. But that's nothing new - LOL.
Kathryn,
I am really feeling for you today. I actually feel a little worried for you. All of this coming to such an ugly head just when your bags were packed for a little getaway. Life can be so unfair at times.
I think you should take that mini vacation as soon as you feel you can leave your father alone to deal with your mom. Maybe your adult kids can help him and get a more realistic, first hand picture of what you are currently dealing with. Right now it sounds like your kids deserve that as much as you and your husband do.
I just wanted to chime in that some therapeutic intervention might be a good idea right now. I visit a good psychologist twice a month and it helps tremendously. We do it by phone since I can't be away from my mom for long. She has helped me with some of the same issues you have mentioned in your posts: having to leave your career to provide care, dealing with kids (in my case step) that don't get it, watching your loved one decline, potential job issues with my husband (due to his health issues) and keeping your marriage healthy in the midst of it. Sometimes it really does help to hear a professional tell you that you're handling it all okay. That you are handling a lot of tremendous issues well. If you can manage it, I say go for it. You are definitely strong, but a little self-care never hurts.
Lastly, I would say forget about buying that wine in the box. I happened to buy one on Saturday, thinking that in these stressful times, it would be the best way to go about it. No more yucky, left over, poorly preserved second day wine for me. Now I have a whole box of second rate wine that real adults should only be subjected to at large schmooze fests that they really didn't want to attend in the first place. Seriously, you should go for a fine Cabernet Sauvignon or Riesling, served with cheese, crackers and fruit out on the patio in the spring sunshine. Hopefully a few girl friends can join you. I (and I think several others on this board) will join you in spirit.
I'm sorry - somehow I missed your post. Please don't take offense at that - I'm dealing with too much of that as it is!
OK
Are you bipolar and refusing to treat that condition? No
"My mother has always been a sort of "she wolf." Very fierce, very territorial, very beautiful and fearless and tough - and very prone to attack others.
I am simply not wired together that way and never have been. I also do not have any mental health conditions which further complicate the situation. From a very early age, I knew that I was strong in a different way from my mother. I also knew I was not at all like my mother. And as I matured, I was more and more glad that I wasn't like my mother - though she has some very admirable traits. I can admire her good traits (stamina, bravery, intelligence, beauty, creativity for example) without being jealous of them." This is a bit different, more like you here
This is not the case with her toward me. She has always fought between a mother's love for her child (which I do believe she has always felt), and her inability to understand and accept that while I am her child, I am not like her
I do accept my daughter, as another person, and never was jealous of either of them, not them as persons, more my older daughter, now, because she is more able than me.
"You are NOTHING like me. Do you realize that? NOTHING like me - I will never understand how your brain works." All this over the fact that I liked an author that she didn't care for?????? WHAT THE HECK! Not at all! My problem was she had to be too much like me. I wanted her to be a physician, not a teacher! I am sorry this happened, I would never say that to either of my daughters. It does not mean I was the ideal mother; my being to demanding and judgmental was a problem for all my children.
My grandkids love me. They also love her. I think that's great!But guess what. When my four month old grandson sees me, he immediately breaks out into a huge, toothless grin and starts kicking and waving his arms - for some reason I really get him animated, and it's very clear that he loves being around me. I think it's adorable! He really is a cheerful baby and would probably do that with any number of people, but I admit that he seems to really react strongly to my presence. Well, you should see the glaring look on her face when that happens. If my daughter says, "Oh look baby - there's your MIMI!" and he begins to grin and kick and coo, my mother will sit on that sofa and just glare at us. If he starts crying when she's holding him, she will say something along the lines of "Well, I'm sorry I'm not your MIMI. Here - take him - clearly he wants you." Come on. Clearly he's teething.
How precious! No I am not like that. A pill anyway
So to answer your question - maybe your point is relevant. I see some similarities in your reactions and what I'm seeing in my mother. I'm sorry I'm 23 years younger than her and that I'm still really active and healthy. Actually no I'm not sorry - it's just the reality of the situation.... I am not jealous of my daughters - I can't relate to that. anymore - I look my age - mid fifties. I'm matronly - I'm not the "beauty" I once was. SO THE HECK WHAT.
You and I have more in common on this.
Your reactions and thoughts may be similar to my mother's, but if that's the case, I still can't really relate well to them. This is an alien thought pattern to me. I guess I just can't relate to the whole "matriarch" thing.
see my comments in text.
OK. Now I think my idea was a bit misplaced. There is one similarity, we are both a pain in the ass, your mother and me.
I always praised my daughters, yet I held them to such high expectations. They had to be perfect students, they had to date the right boys, they had to go into professional careers. When my older daughter was college age, and began to state what she wanted, I was not very supportive, being a teacher was not good enough.
My daughter is a very strong person who has a good life, a loving husband, three great kids, adults now. She is now a public school superintendent, her husband is a company manager. They live well and do not need to depend on me, however, I forget that and am often demanding.
Have been talking to my sister. She reminded me when my father passed on, I had to take over because my mother was not at all an independent woman. This may be why I was such a matriarch; my mother depended on me, as well my sisters and brother. My children were also dependent on me and their father. We were the parents, in that old way, father and mother knows best.
Maybe that is all I have to offer you? As the daughter, maybe your mother envies you in some ways? There comes a time when old persons need to let go and allow the next generation take over.
Kathryn,
I am really feeling for you today. I actually feel a little worried for you. All of this coming to such an ugly head just when your bags were packed for a little getaway. Life can be so unfair at times.
I think you should take that mini vacation as soon as you feel you can leave your father alone to deal with your mom. Maybe your adult kids can help him and get a more realistic, first hand picture of what you are currently dealing with. Right now it sounds like your kids deserve that as much as you and your husband do.
I just wanted to chime in that some therapeutic intervention might be a good idea right now. I visit a good psychologist twice a month and it helps tremendously. We do it by phone since I can't be away from my mom for long. She has helped me with some of the same issues you have mentioned in your posts: having to leave your career to provide care, dealing with kids (in my case step) that don't get it, watching your loved one decline, potential job issues with my husband (due to his health issues) and keeping your marriage healthy in the midst of it. Sometimes it really does help to hear a professional tell you that you're handling it all okay. That you are handling a lot of tremendous issues well. If you can manage it, I say go for it. You are definitely strong, but a little self-care never hurts.
Lastly, I would say forget about buying that wine in the box. I happened to buy one on Saturday, thinking that in these stressful times, it would be the best way to go about it. No more yucky, left over, poorly preserved second day wine for me. Now I have a whole box of second rate wine that real adults should only be subjected to at large schmooze fests that they really didn't want to attend in the first place. Seriously, you should go for a fine Cabernet Sauvignon or Riesling, served with cheese, crackers and fruit out on the patio in the spring sunshine. Hopefully a few girl friends can join you. I (and I think several others on this board) will join you in spirit.
Hang in there!
Oh Kathryn , if I could, I'd give you a big hug! It's not easy dealing with elderly parents with all the changes they are going through - physical, mental, emotional. I had to do it with my own parents but there were three of us children and my parents weren't mentally ill.
Don't your children realize that your mom is mentally ill along with the other challenges of aging that she is facing? Have they never noticed the complicated relationship that you have with her or was/is she able to portray herself as the victim in all of this? You are not selfish, you are just overwhelmed.
As soon as you can, you should meet with her doctors and your father to map out a long term care situation for her. It may mean that you will have to hire someone to look after her or find a place for her or both your parents to live (you may not want to do this but sometimes that is the best option). After you meet with the doctors, perhaps you can call a family meeting (with a health professional there) to explain that this is what is going to be happening to your mom. If your children voice any objections, invite them to care for your mom for a week or two (yes, they have families and other obligations but it can be worked out if they truly wanted to do it). You can't come in for a day or two and think that you know the whole situation. And even if they live far away, they can come down for a long weekend to relieve some of the stress on you.
Lastly, plan and go on that vacation with your husband. You need to rest and recharge your batteries.
Give him hugs and kisses and thank him for being so understanding as you go through this situation.
Oh gee, Kathryn, I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. But I agree, from what you are saying, it sounds like your mother's manipulative skills are finely honed, even if physically she is fragile ( sounds just like my mother), and she's trying her best to twist you into the biggest villain there ever was in the eyes of your friends and family, and damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
To say it's a tough situation to be in is the understatement of the year, but I hope and pray that at least some of your family members can see the light and see what your mother is doing. Maybe talking to an outside professional who's got no dog in that fight, who can be objective can at least give you some perspective and help on a lousy situation, I'd make that psychologist visit in your shoes, for sure. They've seen it all before, and I think they can help.
I'll tell you what, though, if you removed yourself from the situation, leave your mother's care and feeding to those children or other relatives who are so busy dancing to the puppet strings held by your mother, ie, angry at you because of what she's said, they'd see her manipulation when she started to do the same thing to them.
In any case, you're in my thoughts and prayers for the strength and courage to get through this.
Do this. You are volunteering to be mistreated...let the caregivers in the rehab help her with her needs.
You are burned out from caregiving, if you don't back off you'll be in the hospital yourself.
Call those ungrateful kids and say because they made you aware of how you are being percieved, AND you certainly want your Mom's needs to come first...you are stepping back and they all should confer and schedule among themselves for visits etc. with GMa.
Tell them you'll track her progress with her careplan team and Dr...but except for bringing GPa for brief visits....you're leaving her recovery to the professionals and them.
And do it. Take this respite and regain your strength. Seriously, she is your mom, and you love her...but her antagonistic behavior towards you will not stop unless you get out of her way. Take care of you
Now, speaking as someone with professional experience. Relatives who sit around catering all day to residents do not realize how much negative interference and disruption that causes. Especially day times when the testing and assessing and most activity happens. Visit during/after super...then leave. Let your relative rest and recuperate, and you do the same.
1). Take a vacation now, while your Mom has around the clock care.
2). Make an appointment with a therapist for you, with your first visit before you leave for vacation.
3). Read the book "I'm not sick. I don't need help."
4) Find your local caregiver support group through NAMI or through the local branch of the Alzheimer's Association. Ideally, go to both groups.
5) Gently back off from the day to day future caregiving. Let your sibs/relatives know that you need to set up a system of monthly visits. Each month, a sib comes from out of town or local and stays for 3 or 4 days. They check in with you to remind them of the checklist: make sure bills are paid, errands/repairs/shopping are done, meds/care plans reviewed, cleaning and socializing etc. You make the list.
Kathryn I am so sorry you are going through this. It seems to be never ending you helping others. I am so sorry your mom is putting you through this and your children have little insight for what is really happening.
You have done everything right and above and beyond! You need to vent, since your children don't get it, vent away to us! Sending you thoughts and prayers.
Kathryn, keep in mind that even on her best days your mom has not treated you very well. You've posted about her a lot and it sounds like she's always been a handful--demanding, dramatic, bipolar, eating disorder. Add stress, anesthesia and morphine to that and it's a recipe for making her crazier than ever.
If I were you I'd take two giant steps back. I'd compose an email to your kids telling them what is going on and reassuring them that you love her and you love them. Suggest that one of them step up to be the direct contact for your mother until she stops accusing you of things. Sit on the email for a day or two so that you're not writing out of anger. And then resolve to help your father out in any way you can that does not involve direct contact with your mother. Then do it.
Find out from your father what he wants you to do to help with getting your mother home--setting up home health, getting durable medical equipment in place, etc. Tell your siblings, your kids or both to decide who is going to pick her up and get her settled and let them figure it out.
And then go on your vacation and let them deal with it all. You don't have to do everything and at this point no one seems to want you do anything. Be grateful for the respite you'll get because it won't last long.
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) ? I bet that after the hospital/rehab center calls her a few times at 4:30 AM to rush in she may change her mind on how much you really do.
I would never say that to either of my daughters. It does not mean I was the ideal mother; my being to demanding and judgmental was a problem for all my children.
But guess what. When my four month old grandson sees me, he immediately breaks out into a huge, toothless grin and starts kicking and waving his arms - for some reason I really get him animated, and it's very clear that he loves being around me. I think it's adorable! He really is a cheerful baby and would probably do that with any number of people, but I admit that he seems to really react strongly to my presence. Well, you should see the glaring look on her face when that happens. If my daughter says, "Oh look baby - there's your MIMI!" and he begins to grin and kick and coo, my mother will sit on that sofa and just glare at us. If he starts crying when she's holding him, she will say something along the lines of "Well, I'm sorry I'm not your MIMI. Here - take him - clearly he wants you." Come on. Clearly he's teething.
