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I'm not sure you could be any further out in left field.
An uncaring or ungrateful child in this situation might well decide to leave the parents alone, since they are being difficult and obstinate. Then it's just a matter of time before there's a serious fall or one of them is found wandering the streets in their pajamas. Then they will have to be institutionalized and it might not be such a pleasant place as the one the OP has found.
The OP is hoping to spare them those traumatic experiences and keep them safe and comfortable. Since her parents have LTC insurance, there isn't even a financial barrier to getting them moved into an AL. The barrier is their own perception of reality.
No, I am sorry you and others will be offended by my comment. If they cannot deal with the day to day care of their parents (like people did years ago) then they can hire round the clock care for someone to be in the home with them...Its great to say just put people in AL but many people just want to live their lives in their own environment in a place that feels comfortable with their own belongings and treasures. Neither of my parents wanted to go into a nursing home. They BOTH died in their own home with my brother and I at their side as they took their last breath.....At least we can sleep at night knowing we respected THEIR wishes over what would have been "easier" for us.
Sort of harsh? It's so unwarranted, that it's really not even pertinent, and is best just ignored.
The older I get the more I don't even bother responding to things that are so off base, as to not even be relevant.
Lets just hope that someone respects YOUR wishes at the end of YOUR life and doesn't instead do what THEY think is best for you against your wishes.....Its all well and good to do to others what you would not want for yourself....You may be comfortable going into AL but YOU should respect that others (especially your parents who sacrificed for you) may not feel the same way.
.Its great to say just put people in AL but many people just want to live their lives in their own environment in a place that feels comfortable with their own belongings and treasures.
1) Hello….people who are demented cannot make sane, rational decisions for themselves. They are like the children who need care that you talked so much about.
2) no one said anything about 'just putting people in AL.'
I'm glad you and your sibling were able to care for your parents. It was noble work.
With my Mom who has vascular dementia: my long response showing gradual steps taken.
My Dad died and Mom was doing ok on her own in her 70s but her cognitive decline and trusting nature put her at risk so she willingly moved in with sister.
She lived with my sister for 15 years. They had always been sympatico and it worked well for them the first 10.
Then Mom clearly was getting worse the last 5 and exhibiting strange behaviors and memory issues until it got too much for sister to handle with Mom alone by herself for the day. I hired a part time caretaker for safety reasons but Mom let the caretaker go because Mom could take necessary living actions. My other sister and I started taking Mom into our homes for long visits for our custodial sister's respite and to monitor Mom while enjoying her company. So that also got Mom out of the home occasionally for 'vacations '.
Then Mom got worse cognitively to where she was a danger and needed observation. We found the best Assisted Living facility we could and all three of us kids told her it was time to move where she could have an independent life in a safe environment. I told her it reminded me of my college dorm which it did. We didn't tell her specifically what to do but did make the point it as time for her to choose. Thankfully Mom was cognizant enough to agree to it.
Mom went in there with a good attitude and enjoyed the company and comradarie of the other residents yet had the flexibility to close her door for privacy. She worked at fitting herself in. Family visited and took her out weekly. Her church ladies and neighbors continued to visit her.
Then Mom broke her hip and went through surgery rehab and had to go to a SNF. She has gone into solid dementia decline since then and is 89+.
Physically she is still capable but weird in what she does. She is about 3 years old, plays with dolls, and is looking for her Dad. But she is safely monitored, clean, cared for, and watched after. They assist her with tasks when needed but not unless needed. My nurse sister visits her weekly, the rest of us long distance sisters visit less often. We are at the point of observing that she is cared for, safe, and not abused. There is no getting better. POA was signed while Mom was able and will be used when needed.
So hopefully by this long note I have shown how we did it, a trend line of non drastic steps and on occasion medical intervention. Mom is very pragmatic and was willing to make decisions when she saw the need. Each step was gradual so it wasn't a big decision for her. Now she needs us to hold her and keep her safe and is beyond decision making. But she is in place for now.
BTW she lived in Oakwood ASsisted Living on Grove Street in Loudon Tn. They have a connected memory care unit. She is now in Shannondale SNF in Knoxville tn. It is part of a continuing care and starts with individual homes, to duplexes, to a common Assisted Living, to SNF, to memory care. Both work well for her. A CCRC might be the simplest approach if we had known what was coming.
No, I am sorry you and others will be offended by my comment. If they cannot deal with the day to day care of their parents (like people did years ago) then they can hire round the clock care for someone to be in the home with them...Its great to say just put people in AL but many people just want to live their lives in their own environment in a place that feels comfortable with their own belongings and treasures. Neither of my parents wanted to go into a nursing home. They BOTH died in their own home with my brother and I at their side as they took their last breath.....At least we can sleep at night knowing we respected THEIR wishes over what would have been "easier" for us.
LOL yeah because your father's been dead 22 years and your mother had brain cancer 2 yrs ago and not prolonged dementia that caused her to be an obstinate, argumentative, uncooperative, self sabotaging danger to herself and others.
Did your mother take care of your father? You never had to take care of two seriously ill uncooperative people at once, right?
Did your mom go running down the street naked ringing doorbells yelling people were trying to kill her?
Did the police threaten you with legal action if she continued her dementia behavior?
Did she set the house on fire several times thinking a rag with chemicals in the microwave was "baking a cake"?
Did she attack you and throw things at you accusing you of stealing and trying to murder her?
Did she sit by the front window repeating "company's here" 24 hrs per day because a car was parked outside?
Did she call 911 all day and night?
Did she refuse hygiene care?
Did she insist on sitting on a recliner 24/7 including urinating right there?
Did she eat the dog's food but feed the dog feces?
You don't have any clue about these situations so your experience doesn't translate. You didn't even notice that they HAVE hired caregivers "to be in the home with them."?
You can't make dementia people do ANYTHING.
But I'm pretty sure I'd rather die in hospice where the professionals know how to alleviate my pain instead of in the home with two "children" who let me lay there rotting and smelly so they can tell everyone "she died at home".
See what I did there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68551
Went through this with my mom just 2 years ago today......She had brain cancer, no pain, & knew us up until the end....Hearing is the last to go, so talk to her. Please, please let her know how much you love her & that you and your siblings will all take care of each other.
She may be waiting to see one of her children before she dies so make sure your family are all at home.....My mom died on a beautiful sunny day with my brother holding 1 hand and me the other....She was looking up at the ceiling smiling as she went with my father who passed away 20 years before her....
The last thing we said to her was "Mom, its a beautiful sunny day outside and we are right here with you....Dad has been waiting for you for 20 years, go to him. We love you very very much, you have been the best Mom anyone could want but dad has been waiting for you....." She passed away 30 min later with a smile on her face and we felt incredible peace and were humbled by her passing...
No, I am sorry you and others will be offended by my comment.
I wasn't offended by your comment. I was shocked that anyone would be that tactless.
These are difficult issues. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. What happened with your parents (and with my own dearest MIL) is not what happens to everyone. My MIL was in her right mind up until a few days before she passed. But that's not what the OP is dealing with.
My folks also refused any cooperation which is why we had to go for guardianship. That is an expensive, invasive, and heart wrenching process all by itself. It involved multiple doctor appointments, attorney appointments, and a court session that was an emotional ordeal. You are pretty much opposing your own parents in court.
Well, since they've been through this much, it should go without saying that you've proved to them how far you are willing to go.
I know this sucks, because I have just come through something similar, where my mother-in-law did not want assistance, but once she was in the hospital and already helpless, her doctor saying she needed to just go home and die made her rethink it, and she came to live with us instead.
So, just do it. Take a strong friend to help, pull up and start asking what they want to take with them, which gives them some sort of control over their own destiny. Walk them to the car, child-lock the back doors, and take them to their new home. Don't answer questions unless it's related to their new home and only answer in the positive.
Lets just hope that someone respects YOUR wishes at the end of YOUR life and doesn't instead do what THEY think is best for you against your wishes.....Its all well and good to do to others what you would not want for yourself....You may be comfortable going into AL but YOU should respect that others (especially your parents who sacrificed for you) may not feel the same way.
Unless you have lived with someone with dementia or Alzheimer's you have no right to try to make people feel guilty. Some of the personal stories that people have shared in my caregiver support groups have brought even the trained facilitators to tears.
The husband who sleeps in a locked room with two or three of his adult sons always present because on numerous occasions he has attempted to stab or strangle his wife of 45 years because he thinks that she is the devil. Is he really better at home?
Or the man who power walks ten hours each and every day and does not speak nor recognize his wife or children or anyone. Is he really better at home?
Or the person who is basically functioning like a six month old baby (can't talk, fed herself, or care for herself) and needs round the clock medical care for seizures. She has not recognized or responded to anyone in years. Is she really better at home?
Or one of my relatives who could not tell the difference between stuffed animals and live animals and nearly killed her pet cat. Her children/grandchildren were terrified to allow her near her young great-grandchildren for fear that she may hurt them. She also had nearly superhuman strength when she would start to "rage". She pulled wooden doors off the hinges, picked up & threw large pieces of furniture through windows, climbed on the roof and more. I did not believe it was possible until I saw the damage with my own eyes. And she was in her middle 90s at the time. Is she really better at home?
Walk a mile in the shoes of those caregivers and I bet that you won't be as sanctimonious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors
LOL yeah because your father's been dead 22 years and your mother had brain cancer 2 yrs ago and not prolonged dementia that caused her to be an obstinate, argumentative, uncooperative, self sabotaging danger to herself and others.
Did your mother take care of your father? You never had to take care of two seriously ill uncooperative people at once, right?
Did your mom go running down the street naked ringing doorbells yelling people were trying to kill her?
Did the police threaten you with legal action if she continued her dementia behavior?
Did she set the house on fire several times thinking a rag with chemicals in the microwave was "baking a cake"?
Did she attack you and throw things at you accusing you of stealing and trying to murder her?
Did she sit by the front window repeating "company's here" 24 hrs per day because a car was parked outside?
Did she call 911 all day and night?
Did she refuse hygiene care?
Did she insist on sitting on a recliner 24/7 including urinating right there?
Did she eat the dog's food but feed the dog feces?
You don't have any clue about these situations so your experience doesn't translate. You didn't even notice that they HAVE hired caregivers "to be in the home with them."?
You can't make dementia people do ANYTHING.
But I'm pretty sure I'd rather die in hospice where the professionals know how to alleviate my pain instead of in the home with two "children" who let me lay there rotting and smelly so they can tell everyone "she died at home".
My mother had to put her mother in a nursing home as she had gotten Alzheimer's. My mother could not be with her 24 hours a day. She lived till she was 99 years old after being in the nursing home for 10 years or so. My mother would visit her, and she would think she was a neighbor, and would ask which horse she used to pull the buggy to get there. She would introduce her to her daughter, which would be what ever nurse was close by, and thought my mother was a visitor. She got out a few times at night trying to find her way home, and the police would find her wandering the streets in her nightgown and take her back. The nursing home had to put on new locks, my grandmother could not get open on the doors to keep her in.
There are times, you have to make the decision for the loved one's own health, to put them into some kind of assisted living. In fact to put them where there is proper care, can be much better than trying to care for them at home. Some people will think you are mean and selfish to do it, but if it is best for the parent (etc.) it is the best choice to make.
I knew a family years ago, that were extremely wealthy, with the wealth held by the grandmother. Her son bought out a very expensive business, and ran it. The woman looked healthy, but needed special care and meds on time etc. She agreed to live in the nursing home, bought it, and built on a 2 bedroom apartment for her to live in right next to the nursing station. That nursing home because a first rate one for patients. Here was the owner patrolling through it a few times a day, checking with patients, etc. If something was not right, she called the manager. There were no neglected patients, as she would not allow that to happen. The help resented her at first but when the first pay check was given them with a big raise they soon loved her. She told them, that she did not need the money, and wanted well paid loyal people taking care of her and her friends. That nursing home had no trouble hiring help when a rare vacancy happened, the workers were the best paid in town, so it was experienced help from other nursing homes that were applying. The nice thing about the apartment was she could have her grandchildren who were in their teens, there to visit her about every day, and they had their privacy.
I am telling you about this, as here was a multiple times millionaire, who when she needed extra care available quickly, went to a nursing home voluntarily. Of course not everyone can afford to buy the nursing home they are in, make a special apartment like she did. She had been in the business world all her life, and understood business in and out. Now she had nothing to do, so she bought the nursing home she lived in, and stayed in management mode, checking the patients, conditions, cleanliness, etc. None of the help were going to steal from her, as she knew more about book keeping and accounting than any of them did.
I think the OP made it clear that funding wasn't the issue -- they had already found a place. Thus, the question wasn't "how do we pay for this" but "how do we get them to agree."
Right - the OP has been granted guardianship, which means that she is in charge of their finances, basically, but that she has to answer to the court for every dollar spent. So she can make financial decisions with their money basically, as long as she can prove the necessity to the court when she's audited which is generally once a year.
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