Investing near Blue Line Stops : News, views, opportunities (Charlotte, Jacksonville: rentals, condo)
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I have a question for you, Geologic , with respect to the mixed use developments that you referenced. Do these mixed use developments 'feel' like a mall?
Back to Charlotte, there's the proposed redevelopment of First Ward - something once known as the Brooklyn section of CLT. Can anyone help me here? I'm sure Geologic would be interested in this proposed development .
Actually, I do believe that most of Brooklyn was in 2nd ward. The following is a streetview link to a church that I think belonged to Brooklyn.
I have a question for you, Geologic , with respect to the mixed use developments that you referenced. Do these mixed use developments 'feel' like a mall?
I'm not sure what I would be agreeing to, if I said "Yes."
What really annoys me about malls in America, is the way they are cutoff from life around them, surrounded by a sea of cars and parking. It feels like you are visiting an island.
Shopping malls in Hong Kong are not like that. You do not see the cars. Normally, there is parking, but it is hidden away, and the drivers have to park in multi-story structures and then walk to the mall. The pedestrians are the "kings", not the cars and drivers. For me, this makes malls less annoying. And inside, the HK malls use space better, you do not have to walk long distances between shops. There are escalators between levels, and so they do not sprawl the same way as in the US.
(Apologies to those who do not want to read about anything in HK here.)
I prefer malls, whivch have also shops on the outside at street level, and in that way they engage the neighborhood around them - in effect, "inviting" people inside, rather than challenging people to approach them.
I also like mixed use developments with shops on the ground floor, and residential housing above. Birkdale Villlage has that, and so will this new development called Riverwalk in Rock Hill SC, which looks good to my eyes:
Do Carolinians like this sort of mixed use development?
I use Hong Kong to illustrate points, because I see the reality of a different system (not built around cars) everyday, and it works. And I see it working.
So what about the rat cage homes? I don't see this as "working". The divide between the rich and poor there is staggering and the design of the cities reflect this.
Furthermore many many of the Chinese don't see it working either because those with the means, i.e. the wealthy, are pulling their wealth and buying single family car oriented homes in the USA. Last year this amounted to $9B worth of sales. My nephew is involved in the residential construction industry in Raleigh and he has mentioned that he is surprised at the number of Chinese who are buying single family subdivision homes in the Triangle.
It seems that even those in HK, if they had the choice, would choose not to live and raise familes in that environment. They would rather live using the current model as that in the USA.
Frew,
You need to do a better job of distinguishing between Hong Kong and China, if you are going to make comments that stick. And, BTW Hong Kongers are much more likely to buy in London and the UK than cities in American. Mainland chinese are buying everwhere
Some info on Center City Mall in Columbus if you are interested. Like Overstreet, it was an inward facing mall. By the way, Columbus is a very similar city to Charlotte I find.
Some info on Center City Mall in Columbus if you are interested. Like Overstreet, it was an inward facing mall. By the way, Columbus is a very similar city to Charlotte I find.
What went wrong with City Center? ...Among its problems:
+ City Center was an enclosed, inward facing mall design. In effect, it was a suburban mall plopped down on city streets. This shows the type of thinking that was common in the past – and is alas still too common now – that what downtowns needed to compete with the suburbs was a similar environment because the move of people to the suburbs showed a consumer preference for that form. This is almost always a horrible mistake. Given the choice between a real suburb and a downtown trying to act like one, only with higher taxes, more crime, and worse schools, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out which one is going to win.
+ The city tried to lead with retail, when significant retail is probably the last element you need to put in place since it is so difficult to make work in a downtown setting... So who is going to shop there? This mall was heavily dependent on the suburbanite coming downtown as a shopping destination, much moreso than other malls. ===
So there you have it:
Once again an urban experiment fails by trying to cater to people in cars (coming in from the suburbs.)
By putting Cars Last, they have a better chance of getting it right.
I will look into this more closely...
But that Google map location takes me straight into parking lots : Ugh !
I prefer to see real "urban fabric", not efforts to make cars happy
Maybe this is what you had in mind:
But not of great appeal to me, unfortunately.
Still, the suggestion is appreciated
in edit:
Maybe you meant the following, Brooklyn Village, which looks more like it:
“The Brooklyn Village mixed-use development is a vital project for Center City Charlotte. It includes a list of the elements we have anticipated since it was announced six years ago: a new neighborhood in Uptown with a mix of workforce, market rate and affordable housing, neighborhood retail and a well-designed park for Second Ward at the center incorporating the rich history of Second Ward. We are pleased to see the unavoidable delays behind us and believe the additional time for Spectrum Properties will be a valuable investment in a new Center City gem.”
I'm done speculating in Charlotte, but if I was to go scouting, I'd probably try to find properties in Collins Park or Madison Park that have not been renovated yet.
...prices won't have inflated as high as in Dilworth and Sedgefield.
Collins Park - Is this near Scaleybark ?
Madison Park - "light rail along South Boulevard" Many of the original homeowners no longer live in Madison Park, but the new homeowners, many of whom are young professionals with new families, have revitalized the neighborhood in recent years. The location is what attracts many to the neighborhood. Bordered by Woodlawn, Park and Tyvola roads, and South Boulevard to the west, Madison Park offers great location for shopping and dining out at Park Road Shopping Center, access to light rail along South Boulevard, and just a 10 minute drive to Charlotte Douglas Airport International Airport.
. . . Park Road Shopping Center has been the heart of the community since 1956. In addition to a movie theater and a 24-hour Harris Teeter, there are 60 other retailers offering everything from bikes, to books to shoes.
/more: http://www.besthomepro.com/madison-p...homes-for-sale
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_CLT
Wilmore could still be worth gambling on, I've been hearing "it's the next big thing" for years but investors got tased there during the meltdown as the market readjusted. Stick with the east side of Mint street. The west side leading over to I-77 won't appeal to affluent people due to the noise of the interstate.
Wilmore Most of the homes in Wilmore were built in the early to mid 1900s, and most are around the 1,500 square feet range in size. However, there are some great prices for these homes, starting around the $120,000 range. With sidewalks leading to Dilworth and downtown, Wilmore has become a great location for someone who wants to live near plenty of amenities but doesn’t want to pay Dilworth or downtown costs for homes. The recent addition of condos and lofts have added even more appeal to the neighborhood.
. . .
The up-and-coming Camden Road area offers many of Charlotte’s favorite bars, and some of the best boutique shopping near downtown.
/more: http://www.besthomepro.com/wilmore-c...homes-for-sale
/and-website : http://www.liveinwilmore.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_CLT
Montclaire and Starmount are nice neighborhoods, but the school district holds the area back and the homes are a bit small by today's standards.
Starmount Shopping Center across from rail station. Located six miles south of Charlotte, North Carolina, Starmount is a large neighborhood consisting of modest brick homes built during the 1950s. It has an active neighborhood association, which organizes social events, beautification projects, and a neighborhood watch. Starmount has a community swimming pool and tennis courts, and the Starclaire Park Club, a swim and tennis club, is an active neighborhood group. Starclaire Park Club hosts events such as barbecues, swim meets, and swimming lessons.
. . .
Starmount Shopping Center is located near Old Pineville Road, and Tyvola Mall is north of Starmount
/more: http://www.apartmentfinder.com/North...ood-Apartments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_CLT
If someone has "real money" to work with, scoop up some of the properties aligning Tyvola or Woodlawn, then tear down and rebuild. Most of these are already owned by investors looking to make a profit, flipping to a developer. But sometimes I see them go for sale at reasonable prices, as the current investors get tired of handling tenants and repairing old properties.
Tyvola / Tyvola Center Apartments Tyvola Centre is conveniently located just minutes from I-77, I-485, and the new light rail station. We are just a few miles from the exclusive SouthPark area with great shopping and fine dining. In addition, we are close to golf courses and uptown Charlotte
Woodlawn / 1000 E. Woodlawn Rd., listed at $176,200 1000 E Woodlawn Rd #116 This Apt/Condo/Twnhm is located at 1000 East Woodlawn Road #116, Charlotte NC. 1000 E Woodlawn Rd #116 is in the Madison Park neighborhood in Charlotte, NC and in ZIP Code 28209. The average listing price for Madison Park is $191,991. 1000 E Woodlawn Rd #116 has 2 beds, 2 baths, approximately 1,193 square feet, and was built in 2008
/more: http://www.trulia.com/property/10824...lotte-NC-28209
/ Photos added- to help illustrate what's there now /
As for Columbus, I can't see how the shopping mall in HK is much different other than the fact that there are is more residential around the area in Hong Kong. At the time City Center was built, there was very little residential in downtown Columbus. That has changed as it has in Charlotte as well. I think one of the problems in American culture is that people prefer shopping in big box and discount stores like Target and Best Buy rather than the small individually owned stores. This really limits where these retail establishment can locate especially that people prefer to use their cars to shop in bulk. Americans are not used to shopping every day as they do in Europe.
The reason Hong Kong is more dense has a lot to do with the fact that it's geographically limited. The most dense cities in the US are also limited by topography and water - SF, Seattle, NY, Boston, Pittsburgh (downtown area). I agree that we need to build more density into our cities, but there will always be Americans who prefer the suburban lifestyle, even with higher gas prices.
This area has a best buy, target, marshalls, trader joes and a few other restaurants and clothing stores with a condo attached and a hidden parking lot. All along the greenway.
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, with respect to the mixed use developments that you referenced. Do these mixed use developments 'feel' like a mall?
