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There is a lot going on in this thread. The first race comments came from posters insinuating the crime was a result/to blame of racial factors. Clarity on that opinion is what led to that discussion.
Stepping back though, we haven't established many facts. Is the mall failing? Is crime dramatically increasing compared to other malls? Even if those are known and validated, do we know how demographics impact crime vs. poverty?
It is clear that many of you believe Northlake Mall is ridden with crime and choose not to shop there. I support your right to shop wherever you want and for whatever reason you want, but to make blanket statements about crime or demographic trends with no basis in fact, and no data to support it, makes your opinion just one among many. Your opinion may be based on a story or something you see to confirm your bias. But you are not being objective if you aren't looking at the entire picture, vs. cherry picking stories to support your hypothesis (in this case - the hypothesis is "Northlake mall is spiraling downhill due to crime".)
In this entire thread we haven't heard anything other than personal stories to even confirm that the mall is failing "My friend is a manager and told me...; or "I've noticed" stories are just personal anecdotes.
One thing that has been proven, and is clear in the this thread, is that the fear of crime is high and real among many people. I would hope these people can eventually see the forest despite the trees and realize that they may be living a fearful life for no reason. This article does a good job explaining why public perception is sometimes out of sync with reality. The sad part is that it seems when people are scared, crime is actually worse than it would be if they weren't so darn scared all the time.
Fear of crime and it's rise/decline is not always related to actual crime.
Of course this doesn't change the fact that crime does occur and some awful people walk amongst us. But that fact doesn't mean you should condemn entire sections of town or entire malls based on isolated incidents. I can look up 100's of awful crimes that have happened in wonderful places and it doesn't make any of those places any less wonderful. People see what they want to.
There is a lot going on in this thread. The first race comments came from posters insinuating the crime was a result/to blame of racial factors. Clarity on that opinion is what led to that discussion.
Stepping back though, we haven't established many facts. Is the mall failing? Is crime dramatically increasing compared to other malls? Even if those are known and validated, do we know how demographics impact crime vs. poverty?
It is clear that many of you believe Northlake Mall is ridden with crime and choose not to shop there. I support your right to shop wherever you want and for whatever reason you want, but to make blanket statements about crime or demographic trends with no basis in fact, and no data to support it, makes your opinion just one among many. Your opinion may be based on a story or something you see to confirm your bias. But you are not being objective if you aren't looking at the entire picture, vs. cherry picking stories to support your hypothesis (in this case - the hypothesis is "Northlake mall is spiraling downhill due to crime".)
In this entire thread we haven't heard anything other than personal stories to even confirm that the mall is failing "My friend is a manager and told me...; or "I've noticed" stories are just personal anecdotes.
One thing that has been proven, and is clear in the this thread, is that the fear of crime is high and real among many people. I would hope these people can eventually see the forest despite the trees and realize that they may be living a fearful life for no reason. This article does a good job explaining why public perception is sometimes out of sync with reality. The sad part is that it seems when people are scared, crime is actually worse than it would be if they weren't so darn scared all the time.
Fear of crime and it's rise/decline is not always related to actual crime.
Of course this doesn't change the fact that crime does occur and some awful people walk amongst us. But that fact doesn't mean you should condemn entire sections of town or entire malls based on isolated incidents. I can look up 100's of awful crimes that have happened in wonderful places and it doesn't make any of those places any less wonderful. People see what they want to.
I agree. I think many see the new stories about Northlake and crime stats and are scared. It's probably why some have not shopped their. But can you blame them and their families and kids? I think part of the blame lies on the media and police. I think the police needs to really step up around northlake so it's not in the news for some time. But as is, southpark is grabbing northlake customers. In order for that to reverse, trust has to be restored in Northlake. IMO Northlake is at a important juncture of sink or swim. Would be a shame to see the mall go under and close.
There is a lot going on in this thread. The first race comments came from posters insinuating the crime was a result/to blame of racial factors. Clarity on that opinion is what led to that discussion.
Stepping back though, we haven't established many facts. Is the mall failing? Is crime dramatically increasing compared to other malls? Even if those are known and validated, do we know how demographics impact crime vs. poverty?
It is clear that many of you believe Northlake Mall is ridden with crime and choose not to shop there. I support your right to shop wherever you want and for whatever reason you want, but to make blanket statements about crime or demographic trends with no basis in fact, and no data to support it, makes your opinion just one among many. Your opinion may be based on a story or something you see to confirm your bias. But you are not being objective if you aren't looking at the entire picture, vs. cherry picking stories to support your hypothesis (in this case - the hypothesis is "Northlake mall is spiraling downhill due to crime".)
In this entire thread we haven't heard anything other than personal stories to even confirm that the mall is failing "My friend is a manager and told me...; or "I've noticed" stories are just personal anecdotes.
One thing that has been proven, and is clear in the this thread, is that the fear of crime is high and real among many people. I would hope these people can eventually see the forest despite the trees and realize that they may be living a fearful life for no reason. This article does a good job explaining why public perception is sometimes out of sync with reality. The sad part is that it seems when people are scared, crime is actually worse than it would be if they weren't so darn scared all the time.
Fear of crime and it's rise/decline is not always related to actual crime.
Of course this doesn't change the fact that crime does occur and some awful people walk amongst us. But that fact doesn't mean you should condemn entire sections of town or entire malls based on isolated incidents. I can look up 100's of awful crimes that have happened in wonderful places and it doesn't make any of those places any less wonderful. People see what they want to.
Totally agreed.
When there are stories about incidents at crime at SouthPark, people tend to shrug it off but that's not the case for Northlake. But to be fair, SouthPark has a niche that Northlake doesn't have and it's been around longer.
There is way too much discussion on this issue. People that don't wish to be part of criminal activity can choose to not go the Northlake when it is dark if the wish. That is not without justification. There was/is so much crime in the parking lot that extra security had to be hired to patrol the area. Recently there have been shootings at Northlake and across the street at the other shopping center. Why should anyone be stupid enough to go to a place where there is even a pinch of possibility of being a victim? Who wants to go anywhere where you have to be aware of your surroundings? It is not a matter of racism as Ari continues to cry. If there are other places to shop, people can go if they wish. I will go to Northlake any time I need to go. My wife wouldn't. She's not an idiot. She isn't going to walk into that parking lot at night. Why would anyone defend or minimalize the bad things that happen there? Honesty isn't racist as it seems to always be these days. Bottom line, newcomers, look at the crime map of Meck. County before moving into that area and be smart and make up your own mind. I am not saying to not go there. I am saying that the parking lot is a precarious place at night and criminal activity occurs there often, even shootings. Personal philosophies, theories, and excuses aside, use common sense and know where you are going if new to the city. I have nothing more to say on the topic. We are beating a dead horse.
There is way too much discussion on this issue. People that don't wish to be part of criminal activity can choose to not go the Northlake when it is dark if the wish. That is not without justification. There was/is so much crime in the parking lot that extra security had to be hired to patrol the area. Recently there have been shootings at Northlake and across the street at the other shopping center. Why should anyone be stupid enough to go to a place where there is even a pinch of possibility of being a victim? Who wants to go anywhere where you have to be aware of your surroundings? It is not a matter of racism as Ari continues to cry. If there are other places to shop, people can go if they wish. I will go to Northlake any time I need to go. My wife wouldn't. She's not an idiot. She isn't going to walk into that parking lot at night. Why would anyone defend or minimalize the bad things that happen there? Honesty isn't racist as it seems to always be these days. Bottom line, newcomers, look at the crime map of Meck. County before moving into that area and be smart and make up your own mind. I am not saying to not go there. I am saying that the parking lot is a precarious place at night and criminal activity occurs there often, even shootings. Personal philosophies, theories, and excuses aside, use common sense and know where you are going if new to the city. I have nothing more to say on the topic. We are beating a dead horse.
Richard, no one is saying you should seek out scenarios where crime is occurring. We are commenting on those who look for blame/cause of crime as well as questioning the claim that the mall is spiraling out of control. I am also reminding many that their fear is often out of sync, and inflated compared to reality.
BTW - if you're not poor, you already have a much lower chance of being a victim of crime. According to the bureau of Justice statistics:
Persons in poor households at or below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000).
Persons in poor households had a higher rate of violence involving a firearm (3.5 per 1,000) compared to persons above the FPL (0.8–2.5 per 1,000).
The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks. However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.
Poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000) had lower rates of violence compared to poor whites (46.4 per 1,000) and poor blacks (43.4 per 1,000).
Poor persons living in urban areas (43.9 per 1,000) had violent victimization rates similar to poor persons living in rural areas (38.8 per 1,000).
Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).
So, generally speaking, rates of violence for people in poverty are largely the same across racial lines it's just that there is a far higher rate of black people living in poverty, and hence, more likely to resort to violence, or become the victim of violence. The violence isn't tied to who or what they are, it's tied to the circumstances their living in.
Blacks are not inherently prone to violent crime, poor people sometimes are.
Even with that fact documented, it's it interesting that when you control for poverty for poor urban blacks, that the actual rate of violence is slightly higher for poor urban whites at 56.4 incidents per 1000 white persons vs. 51.3 per 1000 black persons. It may not be more than a statistical anomaly, but it does go directly against the prevailing narrative.
There's nothing wrong btw, with Northlake serving customers that don't shop at SouthPark. The fact that Northlake is not as nice a mall as Southpark doesn't make it a bad mall.
Family Dollar, Dollar Tree, Aaron's rental, etc. are all companies that target different customer segments. There are scenarios where their models are more profitable than high end retail. Sometimes a ford dealership does better than a maserati one.
I still haven't learned anything about whether the stores are making money, but the fact that it sold 2 years ago as part of a $1.4 billion dollar deal means it is worse than some on here seem to think. I haven't been able to see the actual property valuation. Is there a lot of retail vacancy at Northlake mall?
Richard, no one is saying you should seek out scenarios where crime is occurring. We are commenting on those who look for blame/cause of crime as well as questioning the claim that the mall is spiraling out of control. I am also reminding many that their fear is often out of sync, and inflated compared to reality.
BTW - if you're not poor, you already have a much lower chance of being a victim of crime. According to the bureau of Justice statistics:
Persons in poor households at or below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000).
Persons in poor households had a higher rate of violence involving a firearm (3.5 per 1,000) compared to persons above the FPL (0.8–2.5 per 1,000).
The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks. However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.
Poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000) had lower rates of violence compared to poor whites (46.4 per 1,000) and poor blacks (43.4 per 1,000).
Poor persons living in urban areas (43.9 per 1,000) had violent victimization rates similar to poor persons living in rural areas (38.8 per 1,000).
Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).
So, generally speaking, rates of violence for people in poverty are largely the same across racial lines it's just that there is a far higher rate of black people living in poverty, and hence, more likely to resort to violence, or become the victim of violence. The violence isn't tied to who or what they are, it's tied to the circumstances their living in. Blacks are not inherently prone to violent crime, poor people sometimes are.
Even with that fact documented, it's it interesting that when you control for poverty for poor urban blacks, that the actual rate of violence is slightly higher for poor urban whites at 56.4 incidents per 1000 white persons vs. 51.3 per 1000 black persons. It may not be more than a statistical anomaly, but it does go directly against the prevailing narrative.
Bottom line, the crime at Northlake is not getting any better. Stats don't mean a rats @ss to me. You should be ranting this info. to Ari. He is the one in denial. I'm good.
Bottom line, the crime at Northlake is not getting any better. Stats don't mean a rats @ss to me. You should be ranting this info. to Ari. He is the one in denial. I'm good.
Translation:
No matter what you say, I am going to believe what I want to even if it's not true or way out of context. I don't care about truth.
Richard - this isn't personal. I'm fine with you believing whatever you want. I just hope there are more people that do care about the truth than basing their beliefs on unvalidated hearsay and bigotry.
So the big unanswered question is where are the lower sales, revenue, and customer traffic stats/data to backup the claim that Northlake is somehow going downhill when compared to the other 3 Charlotte area malls?
Or is that, like most of the rest of those claims just based on wild conjecture?
So the big unanswered question is where are the lower sales, revenue, and customer traffic stats/data to backup the claim that Northlake is somehow going downhill when compared to the other 3 Charlotte area malls?
Or is that, like most of the rest of those claims just based on wild conjecture?
I suggest sending your wife and/or children to Northlake at night and having them hang around the parking lot to see if you have been exposed to "wild conjecture."
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