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I wonder what will come of the 21 story The Park, which is topped out, but is just a shell, or the 52 story 210 Trade, since construction was stopped on it. 300 S Tryon is on hold, and One Charlotte (which was the coolest looking tower I thought), is cancelled. I guess Trump won't materialize now until the economy comes back. I doubt Wachovia has the money to build their new condo tower either, and I doubt Wells Fargo will build it either, especially if they layoff thousands of employees.
I didn't see Encore mentioned, the 20 story condo building that was supposed to be on top of the Carolina Theatre, but I am assuming it's on hold too. It looks like Catalyst will go apartment, like others have said.
More info on The Park Condos: News Release (http://www.theparkcondos.net/nws_feature_main.htm - broken link)
Just prime examples of why I will never, ever, place a deposit of any sort on an unfinished project. NEVER. Far too often these stories make headlines. If I was out a few thousand dollars right now, I'd be royally pickled! But then again, one could say if I had to squander about the "chump change" of a few thousand dollars, I probably wouldn't be in the market for a new uptown condo.
The Encore is short on the presale requirement and will likely not recieve construction financing regardless of whether or not it even gets to it. I would say its on hold indefinitely...
I wonder what will come of the 21 story The Park, which is topped out, but is just a shell, or the 52 story 210 Trade, since construction was stopped on it. 300 S Tryon is on hold, and One Charlotte (which was the coolest looking tower I thought), is cancelled. I guess Trump won't materialize now until the economy comes back. I doubt Wachovia has the money to build their new condo tower either, and I doubt Wells Fargo will build it either, especially if they layoff thousands of employees.
I didn't see Encore mentioned, the 20 story condo building that was supposed to be on top of the Carolina Theatre, but I am assuming it's on hold too. It looks like Catalyst will go apartment, like others have said.
Yeah, I was at the Bobcats game last night and I over heard a couple of conversations that started out with the phrase "I just got laid off today". I have no clue where these people worked, but you kinda have to assume it is a bank layoff. I will say that the economy is probably close to the bottom right now so up is the only way to go from here!!!
This bad economy could be a blessing in disguise. I for one am nowhere close to being able to pay $400,000 for a 2 bed 2 bath condo. I could if I wanted to, but I would not be able to do anything or go anywhere because I wouldn't have any money left after paying my mortgage. Charlotte's "Next Big Thing" needs to be a condo tower that the average Joe can afford. If it is $300 per sq/ft or more, I say don't even bother building it. What is the point of urbanity when only 10% of the population can afford it.
Also, I say let's start building condo towers outside of uptown. Land is cheaper and you can see Charlotte's skyline from 5 floors up anywhere in town. The first 5 floors of these condos should be parking. That way, the people on the bottom of the building (6th floor) can get a view of the city too!!!
I think Park Road shopping center's massive parking lot would be perfect for a condo tower. Most of those parking spaces could be converted into a deck and the condo tower could go on top. Stores are already on the bottom floor. A couple of bars could be added. Traffic in this area is already horrible so I say narrow Park Road down to 2 lanes and use the extra space for a streetcar into Dilworth, Southpark, and Uptown. Similar projects could be done along Charlotte's light rail too!!! I would love to see Charlotte build more high rise communities that people don't have to own cars in. Right now, uptown and South End are about the only places a car less life can happen. Any other area of town, being car less is a hassle.
I agree with you wholeheartedly Urban Charlotte. Park Road Shopping Center was built a hell of a long time again and is completely under utilized. Even it if were to remain a shopping center it could be improved both aesthetically and in design.
That being said, the property is a cash cow for Porter Byrum who owns the site and really has no real reason to improve it. He's in his 80's and the property will be given to Wake Forest Univeristy at the time of his death. Who knows what they will do with it then.
Additionally and unfortunately, its very difficult to build and sell a new construction condo for less than $200/SF and there are very few areas in Charlotte where people will pay that kind of money for a condo, mainly Uptown, perhaps MP, Dilworth, down through to South Park. Also, once you start going above 5 floors you can't use wood frame construction so the costs continue to increase exponentially further increasing what price must be considered to sell a condo...
Obviously Charlotte will evolve, but it'll take quite a bit of time for it to get to where we would like it to be from where it is today.
You guys are talking about the centers and corridors that are planned along the CATS 2030 systems/lines. You can't just go build a high-rise where ever you want. There are zoning rules, land use, infrastructure, etc. I don't disagree that your ideas are good and seem reasonable, but you're not paying attention to the details that enable such a structure.
For instance, let's say the water and sewer lines are max'ed out in capacity that serve the potential site...and the developer needs to replace the lines for about a 1/4 mile (1320 ft.) to handle the new development. Let's say a new 24" sewer main and a new 24" water main, priced $80 per foot and $120 per foot to install, plus other associated construction costs. There's $528,000 in pipe costs alone, say $800,000 to $1M in total cost. Then add other miscellaneous costs just to prep the site for such a structure (new electrical services, road improvements, storm water, etc.)...let's be conservative and say $3M for that. Divide that by the number of units being sold in the new high-rise (let's say an average number of 100 units, similar to the stalled Park condos in Uptown): we're at $40,000 per unit, and we haven't even started building the structure, putting in fancy flooring, or adding designer kitchens!
Sorry to get all technical, but I'm trying to get the point across that you can't just point to an area and say "build." The reason urban sprawl happens like it does is becuase the "urban-ness" has to grow outward to support the new development (or be upgraded in existing areas to support larger/more dense growth).
Again, good thoughts...just not as practical as you may think. I too look at nearby outlying parcels around Uptown and think "that would make an awesome view." It's funny how many slums have one of the best views in the area surrounding Uptown!
You guys are talking about the centers and corridors that are planned along the CATS 2030 systems/lines. You can't just go build a high-rise where ever you want. There are zoning rules, land use, infrastructure, etc. I don't disagree that your ideas are good and seem reasonable, but you're not paying attention to the details that enable such a structure.
For instance, let's say the water and sewer lines are max'ed out in capacity that serve the potential site...and the developer needs to replace the lines for about a 1/4 mile (1320 ft.) to handle the new development. Let's say a new 24" sewer main and a new 24" water main, priced $80 per foot and $120 per foot to install, plus other associated construction costs. There's $528,000 in pipe costs alone, say $800,000 to $1M in total cost. Then add other miscellaneous costs just to prep the site for such a structure (new electrical services, road improvements, storm water, etc.)...let's be conservative and say $3M for that. Divide that by the number of units being sold in the new high-rise (let's say an average number of 100 units, similar to the stalled Park condos in Uptown): we're at $40,000 per unit, and we haven't even started building the structure, putting in fancy flooring, or adding designer kitchens!
Sorry to get all technical, but I'm trying to get the point across that you can't just point to an area and say "build." The reason urban sprawl happens like it does is becuase the "urban-ness" has to grow outward to support the new development (or be upgraded in existing areas to support larger/more dense growth).
Again, good thoughts...just not as practical as you may think. I too look at nearby outlying parcels around Uptown and think "that would make an awesome view." It's funny how many slums have one of the best views in the area surrounding Uptown!
I totally agree, but hasn't the water line underneath Park Rd been recently expanded? It has also been expanded underneath South Blvd in the South End too!!! That is why South End can support all of the high density development it is getting.
Also, can't a 5 floor woodframe go on top of a concrete and steel five floor deck? I am not a builder, but I thought this could be done to save money.
When it comes to zoning issues, most of these developers seem to get the rezoning they seek from the city very easily. That hotel/condo/office project that will block most of the Pink building from view of Uptown (thank Goodness) was approved for a rezoning in less than 5 seconds at the meeting!!!
I was using the water and sewer lines as an example...not necessarily specific to any one site.
I do not know the limit to the height of a wood frame structure, but I'd venture to say that it gets impractical, if not unsafe, after 4 floors. Even putting it ontop of 5 floors of concrete is not as much as a shortcut as it seems. Higher elevations means more exposure to wind.
You're right, developers rule the roost around here and can get strings pulled in any direction they please, for the most part. So in teh case of the "pink building," it was probably a cake walk for anyone wanting to develop around it and block their view to get their site rezoned. The story that I know of for that building is the city pissed off the developer, so in return, he changed the glass to the pink color as an "up yours" to the city.
I wonder what will come of the 21 story The Park, which is topped out, but is just a shell, or the 52 story 210 Trade, since construction was stopped on it. 300 S Tryon is on hold, and One Charlotte (which was the coolest looking tower I thought), is cancelled. I guess Trump won't materialize now until the economy comes back. I doubt Wachovia has the money to build their new condo tower either, and I doubt Wells Fargo will build it either, especially if they layoff thousands of employees.
I didn't see Encore mentioned, the 20 story condo building that was supposed to be on top of the Carolina Theatre, but I am assuming it's on hold too. It looks like Catalyst will go apartment, like others have said.
You seem to have accurately answered any questions you had. About a week ago someone placed a bid on The Park. I haven't heard an updates. I believe the process had to go through a period of litigation or something. I thought the Encore had been sold out?
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Similar projects could be done along Charlotte's light rail too!!! I would love to see Charlotte build more high rise communities that people don't have to own cars in. Right now, uptown and South End are about the only places a car less life can happen. Any other area of town, being car less is a hassle.
