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I see you are familiar with some of the same areas as I ...
I agree the need or interest may not have fully developed here yet but it is here; witness the success of Sun City, and it will grow. Charlotte will probably never be a retirement destination, but there are many working people from other areas already here and their parents often wish to be close by. For that reason I wouldn't want to see all of these projects go near center city. They should be dispersed through the greater Charlotte area, so the parents can be near their kids/grandkids (35 miles to Sun City is a hike to see parents or kids every few days). And that would help resolve the pricing issue, since land is cheaper in the outlying area.
I don't doubt Colts Neck has restrictions, and that is the other side of the coin. In many NJ towns they are overrun with these communities and in others they are outlawed. There should be some balance, and that is where the planners come in.
This is the first thing you and I agree on in principle. Balanced growth is the whole point. We have already experienced poorly managed urban sprawl here. A demographic study will quickly dispel any argument w/ how many of the residents NOW LIVING HERE would even be interested in purchasing homes in age-restricted communities. This is my whole point. When developers come in and create quasi-communities, such as Sun City, they are NOT marketing to the people now living in the region so much as to people who would MOVE to the region.
So establishing more of these communities is NOT serving the residents now here. There is only a small % of the residents who would buy a home there. What it does is simply give an option to people who wish to leave their home state and relocate. You are putting out the welcome mat to new residents, but you are NOT meeting the needs of those already here.
Our infrastructure is indeed being strained by too rapid growth. However, the majority of people who have moved here during the Great Northeast Migration have come here b/c of JOBS. That is NOT the situation w/ retirees. The housing boom in Union County, for example, is primarily b/c people moved here with jobs (or to establish new businesses).
Do you not see my point? At this stage, creating more age-restricted communities does NOT meet the criteria for balanced growth in this area.
This is the first thing you and I agree on in principle. Balanced growth is the whole point. We have already experienced poorly managed urban sprawl here. A demographic study will quickly dispel any argument w/ how many of the residents NOW LIVING HERE would even be interested in purchasing homes in age-restricted communities. This is my whole point. When developers come in and create quasi-communities, such as Sun City, they are NOT marketing to the people now living in the region so much as to people who would MOVE to the region.
So establishing more of these communities is NOT serving the residents now here. There is only a small % of the residents who would buy a home there. What it does is simply give an option to people who wish to leave their home state and relocate. You are putting out the welcome mat to new residents, but you are NOT meeting the needs of those already here.
Our infrastructure is indeed being strained by too rapid growth. However, the majority of people who have moved here during the Great Northeast Migration have come here b/c of JOBS. That is NOT the situation w/ retirees. The housing boom in Union County, for example, is primarily b/c people moved here with jobs (or to establish new businesses).
Do you not see my point? At this stage, creating more age-restricted communities does NOT meet the criteria for balanced growth in this area.
I do see your point that it may not serve the immediate need of locals, but it would serve the need of those familiar with this type of housing, and it would actually be balanced growth for the simple reason there are few to none of these in the LKN area. What would NOT be balanced growth is yet another starter home or golf community. There are already enough of them.
I don't think this is purely a cultural difference; you and others may have not needed such an arrangement for your parents. I can safely say both sets of my parents have personally benefited living in these communities. Although they do/did not participate in many acitivites, the social contacts they made are/were invaluable in their later years. They would not have developed those extensive friendships living in a typical mixed-age neighborhood. I think the residents have an improved quality of life.
This is the first thing you and I agree on in principle. Balanced growth is the whole point. We have already experienced poorly managed urban sprawl here. A demographic study will quickly dispel any argument w/ how many of the residents NOW LIVING HERE would even be interested in purchasing homes in age-restricted communities. This is my whole point. When developers come in and create quasi-communities, such as Sun City, they are NOT marketing to the people now living in the region so much as to people who would MOVE to the region.
So establishing more of these communities is NOT serving the residents now here. There is only a small % of the residents who would buy a home there. What it does is simply give an option to people who wish to leave their home state and relocate. You are putting out the welcome mat to new residents, but you are NOT meeting the needs of those already here.
Our infrastructure is indeed being strained by too rapid growth. However, the majority of people who have moved here during the Great Northeast Migration have come here b/c of JOBS. That is NOT the situation w/ retirees. The housing boom in Union County, for example, is primarily b/c people moved here with jobs (or to establish new businesses).
Do you not see my point? At this stage, creating more age-restricted communities does NOT meet the criteria for balanced growth in this area.
ani - I've been to Sun City more than a few times and there seems to be a good mix of natives and newcomers in the place. But Sun City has changed a bit in its marketing, as well. They have decided that up to 20% of its residents can be non-age restricted. I guess the sales, while still good, have lost a bit of luster. You are right that not everyone in Charlotte will be moving there - with patio homes (altho' very nice ones) going for $250,000 to $450,000. This place is not going to be a big market for the Social Security-only crowd, whether from in-state or out-of-state.
thejersey3 - LKN or "Lake Enormous" as I like to call it, is a lovely and depending on location, a very pricey area. Perhaps the developers realized that there wasn't enough of a "critical mass of buyers" for the types of communities they were proposing. The problem with that area would be the high cost of land, especially if one wanted to develop a lakefront retirement community, which I'm sure would be very nice place in which to reside! Another downside that one must carefully consider in the design of a place like this, is the availabilty of geriatric facilities and hospitals. No old, sick person is going to want to drive 40 miles to their doctor's appointments. When you're having a heart attack, you don't want to be too far from a good hospital either! Going too far away from medical centers is risky and the low population density of the LKN area is not conducive at this time to support another large hospital specializing in geriatric conditions. Perhaps this will all change in ten years, but who knows?
................ Considering it costs on the order of $9000/child/year for a child's education, town/county/state planners should have an interest in that. .........
Get your facts straight. Union County costs per child per year is less than 1/2 that amount. You might get closer to that amount if you combine Federal, State AND Local funding. Just two or three years ago, Union counties contribution to per pupil expenditure was around 2,000 dollars and State and Federal was another 4,000.
I do see your point that it may not serve the immediate need of locals, but it would serve the need of those familiar with this type of housing, and it would actually be balanced growth for the simple reason there are few to none of these in the LKN area. What would NOT be balanced growth is yet another starter home or golf community. There are already enough of them.
I don't think this is purely a cultural difference; you and others may have not needed such an arrangement for your parents. I can safely say both sets of my parents have personally benefited living in these communities. Although they do/did not participate in many acitivites, the social contacts they made are/were invaluable in their later years. They would not have developed those extensive friendships living in a typical mixed-age neighborhood. I think the residents have an improved quality of life.
NO, you obviously do NOT see my point.
I am talking about the needs of everyone who lives here. You keep dividing things up into "locals" vs. you (or maybe - transplanted retirees???) Let's get the demographics straight. Two-thirds of the people who currently live in Charlotte are not natives.
Secondly, why do you keep repeating that people are not familiar with "this type of housing?" These are the things you say wh/ I referred to as "disparaging" in an earlier post. It sounds like a backhanded way of referring to anyone who disagrees w/ you as either being ill informed or too unsophisticated to grasp the concept.
Think this through. Many people here are QUITE familiar with age-restricted communities. I have visited four Del Webb communities in other states. I am sure many people who live here have lived near such communities and they may have visited this local Sun City. Please consider: if 2/3 of the people living here are from somewhere else - and most of them are from the NE . . . why would you assume we are not familiar with the same age-restricted communities you so fondly refer to?
We ARE familiar with age-restricted communities, especially those of us who are over 50. This has nothing to do with anything cultural! My parents have their arrangements quite taken care of and will eventually be moving to a CCRC. Most of their friends have also made similar arrangements, should they decide they need to leave their homes. So you are making all sorts of assumptions that have nothing to do with the demographics in this region not supporting more age-restricted communities.
This is not a cultural issue! This is a matter of growth and moreover, balanced growth to meet the needs of everyone who LIVES HERE. The whole point is - we do not need to construct age-restricted communities so that we ATTRACT retirees.
That is great your parents loved the communities! My aunt and uncle do, too! So do thousands of other people! No one doubts that that these communities are popular w/ many people.
The point is - they are not NEEDED here! We need to develop our communities to meet the needs of people currently living here or who will be moving here because they NEED to move here, i.e. with a job. We do NOT need to create communities that will not house the general population.
The sprawl that has occurred here already clearly shows that close-in land is a valuable commodity needed to develop both retail and housing w/in commuting distances to jobs. Sun City was developed b/c land was cheap and plentiful at that location, and it is outside the area where most people will want to live if they must commute.
Do you not see why city/county planners would be resistant to allowing another builder to come in and create a whole community on property that would be better used to house those people moving here for jobs - and needing a reasonable commute?
EM pointed out something very germane to this discussion - we do not have mass transit that allows people to live outside a metro area and easily commute via train back into the city for work. So it is necessary to put any age-restricted communities in outlying areas - and develop housing that has no age restrictions closer in.
You are misreading everything I have posted when you seem to shrug at the rationale for not creating more of these communities - as being in conflict w/ the type of growth needed here - and instead refer to people here not being familiar w/ these communities or having some kind of cultural bias against them.
Au contraire! They are simply not needed in the Charlotte region and are a poor choice for municipal planners b/c instead of meeting the needs of people who are currently living here, they exclude everyone up to age 55. In addition, we have a big inventory of homes here - new construction and well as re-sales. ALL residential building needs to slow down.
If you want a one-story home near where you are located now, why don't you just build it?
I am talking about the needs of everyone who lives here. You keep dividing things up into "locals" vs. you (or maybe - transplanted retirees???) Let's get the demographics straight. Two-thirds of the people who currently live in Charlotte are not natives.
Secondly, why do you keep repeating that people are not familiar with "this type of housing?" These are the things you say wh/ I referred to as "disparaging" in an earlier post. It sounds like a backhanded way of referring to anyone who disagrees w/ you as either being ill informed or too unsophisticated to grasp the concept.
Think this through. Many people here are QUITE familiar with age-restricted communities. I have visited four Del Webb communities in other states. I am sure many people who live here have lived near such communities and they may have visited this local Sun City. Please consider: if 2/3 of the people living here are from somewhere else - and most of them are from the NE . . . why would you assume we are not familiar with the same age-restricted communities you so fondly refer to?
We ARE familiar with age-restricted communities, especially those of us who are over 50. This has nothing to do with anything cultural! My parents have their arrangements quite taken care of and will eventually be moving to a CCRC. Most of their friends have also made similar arrangements, should they decide they need to leave their homes. So you are making all sorts of assumptions that have nothing to do with the demographics in this region not supporting more age-restricted communities.
This is not a cultural issue! This is a matter of growth and moreover, balanced growth to meet the needs of everyone who LIVES HERE. The whole point is - we do not need to construct age-restricted communities so that we ATTRACT retirees.
That is great your parents loved the communities! My aunt and uncle do, too! So do thousands of other people! No one doubts that that these communities are popular w/ many people.
The point is - they are not NEEDED here! We need to develop our communities to meet the needs of people currently living here or who will be moving here because they NEED to move here, i.e. with a job. We do NOT need to create communities that will not house the general population.
The sprawl that has occurred here already clearly shows that close-in land is a valuable commodity needed to develop both retail and housing w/in commuting distances to jobs. Sun City was developed b/c land was cheap and plentiful at that location, and it is outside the area where most people will want to live if they must commute.
Do you not see why city/county planners would be resistant to allowing another builder to come in and create a whole community on property that would be better used to house those people moving here for jobs - and needing a reasonable commute?
EM pointed out something very germane to this discussion - we do not have mass transit that allows people to live outside a metro area and easily commute via train back into the city for work. So it is necessary to put any age-restricted communities in outlying areas - and develop housing that has no age restrictions closer in.
You are misreading everything I have posted when you seem to shrug at the rationale for not creating more of these communities - as being in conflict w/ the type of growth needed here - and instead refer to people here not being familiar w/ these communities or having some kind of cultural bias against them.
Au contraire! They are simply not needed in the Charlotte region and are a poor choice for municipal planners b/c instead of meeting the needs of people who are currently living here, they exclude everyone up to age 55. In addition, we have a big inventory of homes here - new construction and well as re-sales. ALL residential building needs to slow down.
If you want a one-story home near where you are located now, why don't you just build it?
ani - There are tons of smaller one-story homes and lovely bungalows in Charlotte that would be suitable for older couples who are still connected to life. I, for one, would find it an anathema to have to live in an area without kids playing games, dogs barking, and younger couples. It adds needed dimension to living. Who wants to look at old ladies, whose gravity-afflicted busoms are now at knee level anyway? The endless parade of patio houses with the requisite Mercury Grand Marquis (minus the de Sade option) or Buick Park Avenue with a golf cart in the driveway remind me of a "detached home version" of "Waiting for God"!
Last edited by TheEmissary; 04-15-2009 at 02:54 PM..
I am talking about the needs of everyone who lives here. You keep dividing things up into "locals" vs. you (or maybe - transplanted retirees???) Let's get the demographics straight. Two-thirds of the people who currently live in Charlotte are not natives.
Secondly, why do you keep repeating that people are not familiar with "this type of housing?" These are the things you say wh/ I referred to as "disparaging" in an earlier post. It sounds like a backhanded way of referring to anyone who disagrees w/ you as either being ill informed or too unsophisticated to grasp the concept.
Think this through. Many people here are QUITE familiar with age-restricted communities. I have visited four Del Webb communities in other states. I am sure many people who live here have lived near such communities and they may have visited this local Sun City. Please consider: if 2/3 of the people living here are from somewhere else - and most of them are from the NE . . . why would you assume we are not familiar with the same age-restricted communities you so fondly refer to?
We ARE familiar with age-restricted communities, especially those of us who are over 50. This has nothing to do with anything cultural! My parents have their arrangements quite taken care of and will eventually be moving to a CCRC. Most of their friends have also made similar arrangements, should they decide they need to leave their homes. So you are making all sorts of assumptions that have nothing to do with the demographics in this region not supporting more age-restricted communities.
This is not a cultural issue! This is a matter of growth and moreover, balanced growth to meet the needs of everyone who LIVES HERE. The whole point is - we do not need to construct age-restricted communities so that we ATTRACT retirees.
That is great your parents loved the communities! My aunt and uncle do, too! So do thousands of other people! No one doubts that that these communities are popular w/ many people.
The point is - they are not NEEDED here! We need to develop our communities to meet the needs of people currently living here or who will be moving here because they NEED to move here, i.e. with a job. We do NOT need to create communities that will not house the general population.
The sprawl that has occurred here already clearly shows that close-in land is a valuable commodity needed to develop both retail and housing w/in commuting distances to jobs. Sun City was developed b/c land was cheap and plentiful at that location, and it is outside the area where most people will want to live if they must commute.
Do you not see why city/county planners would be resistant to allowing another builder to come in and create a whole community on property that would be better used to house those people moving here for jobs - and needing a reasonable commute?
EM pointed out something very germane to this discussion - we do not have mass transit that allows people to live outside a metro area and easily commute via train back into the city for work. So it is necessary to put any age-restricted communities in outlying areas - and develop housing that has no age restrictions closer in.
You are misreading everything I have posted when you seem to shrug at the rationale for not creating more of these communities - as being in conflict w/ the type of growth needed here - and instead refer to people here not being familiar w/ these communities or having some kind of cultural bias against them.
Au contraire! They are simply not needed in the Charlotte region and are a poor choice for municipal planners b/c instead of meeting the needs of people who are currently living here, they exclude everyone up to age 55. In addition, we have a big inventory of homes here - new construction and well as re-sales. ALL residential building needs to slow down.
If you want a one-story home near where you are located now, why don't you just build it?
I am talking about the needs of everyone who lives here. You keep dividing things up into "locals" vs. you (or maybe - transplanted retirees???) Let's get the demographics straight. Two-thirds of the people who currently live in Charlotte are not natives.
Secondly, why do you keep repeating that people are not familiar with "this type of housing?" These are the things you say wh/ I referred to as "disparaging" in an earlier post. It sounds like a backhanded way of referring to anyone who disagrees w/ you as either being ill informed or too unsophisticated to grasp the concept.
Think this through. Many people here are QUITE familiar with age-restricted communities. I have visited four Del Webb communities in other states. I am sure many people who live here have lived near such communities and they may have visited this local Sun City. Please consider: if 2/3 of the people living here are from somewhere else - and most of them are from the NE . . . why would you assume we are not familiar with the same age-restricted communities you so fondly refer to?
We ARE familiar with age-restricted communities, especially those of us who are over 50. This has nothing to do with anything cultural! My parents have their arrangements quite taken care of and will eventually be moving to a CCRC. Most of their friends have also made similar arrangements, should they decide they need to leave their homes. So you are making all sorts of assumptions that have nothing to do with the demographics in this region not supporting more age-restricted communities.
This is not a cultural issue! This is a matter of growth and moreover, balanced growth to meet the needs of everyone who LIVES HERE. The whole point is - we do not need to construct age-restricted communities so that we ATTRACT retirees.
That is great your parents loved the communities! My aunt and uncle do, too! So do thousands of other people! No one doubts that that these communities are popular w/ many people.
The point is - they are not NEEDED here! We need to develop our communities to meet the needs of people currently living here or who will be moving here because they NEED to move here, i.e. with a job. We do NOT need to create communities that will not house the general population.
The sprawl that has occurred here already clearly shows that close-in land is a valuable commodity needed to develop both retail and housing w/in commuting distances to jobs. Sun City was developed b/c land was cheap and plentiful at that location, and it is outside the area where most people will want to live if they must commute.
Do you not see why city/county planners would be resistant to allowing another builder to come in and create a whole community on property that would be better used to house those people moving here for jobs - and needing a reasonable commute?
EM pointed out something very germane to this discussion - we do not have mass transit that allows people to live outside a metro area and easily commute via train back into the city for work. So it is necessary to put any age-restricted communities in outlying areas - and develop housing that has no age restrictions closer in.
You are misreading everything I have posted when you seem to shrug at the rationale for not creating more of these communities - as being in conflict w/ the type of growth needed here - and instead refer to people here not being familiar w/ these communities or having some kind of cultural bias against them.
Au contraire! They are simply not needed in the Charlotte region and are a poor choice for municipal planners b/c instead of meeting the needs of people who are currently living here, they exclude everyone up to age 55. In addition, we have a big inventory of homes here - new construction and well as re-sales. ALL residential building needs to slow down.
If you want a one-story home near where you are located now, why don't you just build it?
You are reading far too much into the "not familiar" statement, and twisting it as an attack. Someone specifically posted these communities as foreign to them and asked questions suggesting they have not seen them. How many times do I need to say I mean no offense? If anything, I'm the one that should be offended by your accusations of such.
It's obvious you are dead set against this type of housing, but I'm not sure why. You say it would not meet the current need in the area. I would disagree with that but tell me ... in your opinion what what type of housing would meet the need? Can you honestly say we need more single-family housing in the Charlotte metro area? I would agree we should meet that need if that were true, but the sea of unoccupied new homes here tells me we have more than met that need. And this did not just start with the recession. Let's be serious, the people moving here with jobs have plenty to pick from, both new and resale. The retirees have little. It's really that simple.
I have personal experience living in other areas of the country, and have never seen uncontrolled growth and overbuilding as goes on here. The market for homes here has been diffcult here for 10 years now for one reason: oversupply. Except for the fortunate few living on the lake or near center city, appreciation is near non-existent. More of the same is not the answer. We need other types of housing options to balance what is here.
ani - There are tons of smaller one-story homes and lovely bungalows in Charlotte that would be suitable for older couples who are still connected to life. I, for one, would find it an anathema to have to live in an area without kids playing games, dogs barking, and younger couples. It adds needed dimension to living. Who wants to look at old ladies, whose gravity-afflicted busoms are now at knee level! The endless parade of patio houses with the requisite Mercury Grand Marquis (minus the de Sade option) or Buick Park Avenue with a golf cart in the driveway remind me of a "detached home version" of "Waiting for God"!
I'm with ya, I currently like the age diversity in my community but we're both not at that point in our lives where we might like this type of housing arrangement. But you may like it someday, and I hope you don't need to move out-of-state to find something.
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The endless parade of patio houses with the requisite Mercury Grand Marquis (minus the de Sade option) or Buick Park Avenue with a golf cart in the driveway remind me of a "detached home version" of "Waiting for God"! 
