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Old 04-29-2010, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
554 posts, read 1,316,087 times
Reputation: 286

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I have two comments dadof2many:

1. you first commented that online advertising doesn't work locally unless you spend a ton of money. That is incorrect...its actually A LOT cheaper than what local businesses are used to paying for traditional, untrackable advertising.
2. you shouldn't PAY for advertising, you should BE "paid" to advertise. Big difference...no advertising should COST you money, you should be making money off of it, plain and simple. So even if he/she or ANYONE is looking to advertise but has a low budget and can't afford to invest enough money for online advertising - I still certainly don't' suggest throwing your money away just to get some exposure in a local magazine unless its FREE! I advice you save your advertising budget so you can invest in a campaign that will pay you in the end. The OP was looking for a local newspaper so I still think that if he's looking to advertise in an sort of newspaper, he/she should first look at the online option first.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:27 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,946,960 times
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I think the biggest bank for the buck, back to answering the OPs question, is to advertise in one of the Carolina Weekly newspapers. The one here at the lake has a pretty good following and I've heard that advertising in these are a good bet.

If you are a local company looking for local customers, then I would recommend this route. The other is to get into the weekly flyer mailing that includes the grocery store flyers.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
554 posts, read 1,316,087 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
I think the biggest bank for the buck, back to answering the OPs question, is to advertise in one of the Carolina Weekly newspapers. The one here at the lake has a pretty good following and I've heard that advertising in these are a good bet.

If you are a local company looking for local customers, then I would recommend this route. The other is to get into the weekly flyer mailing that includes the grocery store flyers.
lumbollo what kind of experience do you have to back that opinion up, seriously! both suggestions are just such horrible advice that i don't even know where to begin?! what kind of "statistics" are you basing this knowledge on?
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:55 PM
 
76 posts, read 123,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaEve011 View Post
I have two comments dadof2many:

1. you first commented that online advertising doesn't work locally unless you spend a ton of money. That is incorrect...its actually A LOT cheaper than what local businesses are used to paying for traditional, untrackable advertising.
2. you shouldn't PAY for advertising, you should BE "paid" to advertise. Big difference...no advertising should COST you money, you should be making money off of it, plain and simple. So even if he/she or ANYONE is looking to advertise but has a low budget and can't afford to invest enough money for online advertising - I still certainly don't' suggest throwing your money away just to get some exposure in a local magazine unless its FREE! I advice you save your advertising budget so you can invest in a campaign that will pay you in the end. The OP was looking for a local newspaper so I still think that if he's looking to advertise in an sort of newspaper, he/she should first look at the online option first.
Well Amanda I have 2 things to say.
1) You don't know what this business is trying to do but since you seem to know all about advertising. Your missing what he is trying to do and yes print media can be trackable so don't even go there. I wish I knew as much as you 5 years into my career.

2) Nice analogy Advertising should pay you. Pay you in the end? Advertise Free? You shouldn't pay for advertising? Advertising is a cost of doing business just like your lights you need to consistently target your prospect audience and get your message out Almost every business I have ever worked or done work for has a budget to spend you can't be serious. If your ad vehicle is so wonderful you should only make the customer pay if it works. The customer doesn't have to pay you a dime if you can not get results. Is that how your business operates? No because any business that works that model would be out of business.

An economics lesson is in order here and I will keep it short since attention seems to be an issue. Why do people advertise? Usually they need to offer something to move product or let people know they exist. How can they reach that market internet, radio, television, print. Each have strengths each has weaknesses each one has a cost. If the business is a pizza place servicing Pineville how can the business reach the masses. According to your flawed rhetoric only via the internet I am telling you ...wait for it .......... YOU ARE WRONG The business would gain by saturating the market place with a coupon of some sort to get people in the door which would be measurable can the net be apart of it sure but in most cases the business is looking for immediate results. There are different influencers that encourage behavior.

Herein lies the issue how many coupons do they need to collect to pay for the campaign. It all depends on what it cost. I can give you example after example of other businesses that have a mix of media but according to you your way is the only way.

You mentioned in an earlier post CNN, FOX and the Observer at a cpm of .51 cents per impression (2 TV entities and a print product). I will tell you straight out just because you serve it doesn't mean it has been seen. Contrary to your belief Local print media is alive and well in the US because they deliver LOCAL news and events to communities in a readable format. I don't read the observer since I watch local news. Yet the tv people keep trying to drive me to their website which I don't go to since I don't have time. Media has been fractured with not one definable source for content on the national level.

Funny when I worked for the paper the Men's room was full of newspapers when I worked for yahoo the bathroom was still full of papers but it had been printed from the computer. Same stories same newspapers but online content. I guess they still haven't figured out how to take the puter into the stall yet (go figure)

You still have not answered the question of when is the last time you clicked on a banner ad or a paid search ad.

Study after study shows that people don't see or interact or engage with the ads on line because they have become desensitized and they can't tell you the last ad they have seen. Search is way better when the customer is searching for something that they have chosen. Which brings up the whole ppc issue.

Again I have no vested interest in what this business owner is trying to accomplish. There really is no need for you to be so defensive about what you do. Take a step back and realize that there are other ways to get results. I promise you will be a better more successful sales person if you listen to your customers needs not what you think they need.
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
554 posts, read 1,316,087 times
Reputation: 286
Yes, lets hope every single person in sales - even if its their 2nd day on the job - knows that its most important to find out what the type of business it is and learn about what he/she is trying to do. But AGAIN (wait who has an issue with attention?) the OP was looking for a local newspaper so I told them they need to look at online advertising. I didn't say what TYPE of online advertising - it could be branding through banner ads, similar to tradional marketing but the impressions are much stronger or it could be SEM to allow that business in front of consumers who are looking for a product/service. I still stand by that - if you're looking into any type of advertising, make sure you are looking into online because most people are spending their time online searching, surfing the internet, and socializing through medias such as facebook, myspace, ect.


Okay so my analogy of "don't pay for advertising but get paid for advertising" was corny I'll admit...but you get the gist. You never want to pay for advertising, you want to run a campaign in which you make money from the amount of consumers that advertising campaign drives into your business. Better? Less corny? Hope I cleared that up for you....because yes, inevitably they need to pay for advertising to start a campaign but if the campaign is run well it should pay for itself and have that business make money off it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadof2many View Post
You mentioned in an earlier post CNN, FOX and the Observer at a cpm of .51 cents per impression (2 TV entities and a print product). I will tell you straight out just because you serve it doesn't mean it has been seen. Contrary to your belief Local print media is alive and well in the US because they deliver LOCAL news
Wait...let me get this straight...if I'm showing that banner ad it doesn't mean it has been seen than how does that differ from newspaper? You pay for an ad in the newspaper and HOPE it gets seen...same kind of thing, right? Your relying on the CPM numbers that the salesman told you about. The idea in "online billboard ads" and any traditional marketing is branding a business. I don't disagree with traditional marketing and I don't think we should get rid of it all together - branding is still beneficial to an advertiser as an added value because we both know that more exposure to a business the better...but it shouldn't be the only thing you buy, you should have an online presence first because that's where most people are spending their time....and you ALWAYS want to be where most of the population is.

However, putting the local business's service or product IN FRONT of the consumer when they need it is a new, updated, and better way to advertise...take a plumber for example - if I need a plumber then I'm going to search for one. I'm not going to the yellowpages, I don't even go to an online directory, I just search through a search engine and I normally pick an area - for example I may say "plumber in ballantyne". That's where SEM advertising has taken it to a whole new level. DM can track minimally by seeing who brings in that coupon to their business but I'm not going to pull out my postcard or run to the mailbox in hopes of finding a coupon, I'm going online to search for one in my area. If your new to Charlotte like I am I search everything from furniture stores, dance studios for my daughter, restaurants, plumbers, jewlery stores, events, and just about everything. Then when I find it and click on that sponsored ad thats when I might find a coupon online depending on if the advertiser wants to offer one. SEM is very cost effective, offers a much better way to track and is available when the consumer is looking for their product at that moment!!!
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:15 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,946,960 times
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Luv, if you go to google and type in plumber Charlotte, plumber Timbucktoo, etc. Google is going to list all the businesses with a phone number in the area that lists itself as a plumber. You don't need to buy an online ad for it. In fact if you place an advert in a printed paper, and they place it online, Google will capture it and add it to the list.

Your theory completely fails and demonstrates a lack of understanding of how search engines work. Furthermore people who have moved 100% online have also learned how to run adblock to block out most advertising. This is not going to be a solution for most local businesses.

Furthermore, you are making strawman arguments based on personal anecdotes that attempts to create a grand theory of advertizing. There simply isn't a "correct" way vs an incorrect way to advertize. For some items on-line is appropriate, but I will say again that a local business is going to get a lot more traction from a local paper that is delivered to the home which the Carolina Weekly papers are in their target areas. (as in free) People read them because they contain news that can't be had anywhere else and because of that the adverts in them are very very effective.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
554 posts, read 1,316,087 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
Luv, if you go to google and type in plumber Charlotte, plumber Timbucktoo, etc. Google is going to list all the businesses with a phone number in the area that lists itself as a plumber. You don't need to buy an online ad for it. In fact if you place an advert in a printed paper, and they place it online, Google will capture it and add it to the list.

Your theory completely fails and demonstrates a lack of understanding of how search engines work. Furthermore people who have moved 100% online have also learned how to run adblock to block out most advertising. This is not going to be a solution for most local businesses.

Furthermore, you are making strawman arguments based on personal anecdotes that attempts to create a grand theory of advertizing. There simply isn't a "correct" way vs an incorrect way to advertize. For some items on-line is appropriate, but I will say again that a local business is going to get a lot more traction from a local paper that is delivered to the home which the Carolina Weekly papers are in their target areas. (as in free) People read them because they contain news that can't be had anywhere else and because of that the adverts in them are very very effective.
I understand that this is what you THINK is happening but you would be wrong. I do this for a living, so trust me I know a thing of two more than you do about this. If you type in plumber charlotte you better hope that your website is coming up in the free listings on the first page. The way that happens is relevancy and click thru rates. And even if you are on the first page of free listings you are coming up organically through SPECIFIC keywords and the arrangement of just how that searcher is searching. So if you type in plumber charlotte are you sure the other consumers with a need for your business are typing that exact way? Or could they type in plumbing, plumbing company, cheapest plumber, leaky faucet, frozen pipes, best plumber in charlotte, best plumber in ballantyne, ect and that doesn't even touch on misspelled words. Not to mention that different people use different search engines. This is what I mean when saying an online SEM campaign is very effective...if it was as simple as showing up with a free listing than SEO wouldn't be effective now would it? But again, its very effective if done correctly. So clearly you don't know what your talking about in advertising...as a rule of thumb its never a good idea to battle someone or try to teach someone about what they do for a living - I don't know what you do for a living but I certainly wouldn't even attempt to teach you about it especially with little to no knowledge of it.



I'm not even going to go into much detail about your assumption of higher traction of weekly papers (free) because unless you have numbers to back your findings (which you won't find) then there is no point to further discuss this conversation. What I can say is anything that you find in that local newspaper can be found online. Most of those free weekly papers are thrown away, yes some read it, but most don't. And if you care to challenge me on that then bring some proof to the table.

One more thing, if you are really interested in learning about online advertising so that you can really bring valid points to this discussion then let me know and I'll set up an appointment with you and teach you a thing of two; if you don't leave learning something new and have all your objections answered then I have a $20 bill with your name on it....
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:41 AM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,946,960 times
Reputation: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaEve011 View Post
.....
One more thing, if you are really interested in learning about online advertising so that you can really bring valid points to this discussion then let me know and I'll set up an appointment with you and teach you a thing of two; if you don't leave learning something new and have all your objections answered then I have a $20 bill with your name on it....
This of course is another logical fallacy. i.e. "I am right because I say I am right because I am an "expert"". When people move down the slope of claiming credentials, (and questioning the credentials of others, as you attempted to do above) that can't be proven vs actually addressing the points made in the topic, then that pretty much ends the conversation IMO. It is no longer a discussion of ideas but an assassination of the people with their ideas. Something that I don't plan to participate in.

The school of hard knocks has taught me what I need to know about snake oil, so I won't be applying to your school.
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
554 posts, read 1,316,087 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
This of course is another logical fallacy. i.e. "I am right because I say I am right because I am an "expert"". When people move down the slope of claiming credentials, (and questioning the credentials of others, as you attempted to do above) that can't be proven vs actually addressing the points made in the topic, then that pretty much ends the conversation IMO. It is no longer a discussion of ideas but an assassination of the people with their ideas. Something that I don't plan to participate in.

The school of hard knocks has taught me what I need to know about snake oil, so I won't be applying to your school.

I addressed the points, I use statistical proof to back it up and you have nothing to say but that? I think you are calling the kettle black here. But you know what they say - "ignorance is bliss" have a great day!
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:06 AM
 
76 posts, read 123,958 times
Reputation: 38
Wow Amanda I guess everyone can have an opinion unless they disagree. I think what everyone who has tried to respond intelligently to the op hasn't said that on line is not a good place. Yet you claim to listen so well.

You search for what you want yet you haven't answered the question I asked 3 times
When was the last time you clicked on a banner ad or a paid search ad.

Concerning learning on the second day about customer wants I would tell you it takes a lot longer than that to develop successful listening skills. You seem to have a passion for what you do which isn't a bad thing but you come off as someone who is pushy and preachy which will not endear you to clients.

Duh advertising should pay for itself. To a point it depends on your objective You mention branding which most banner ads are as are most television ads. Where is the accountability that the ad has paid for itself.

No advertising gives you any guarantee, all they guarantee is that it will be printed, distributed, broadcast or served depending on the media. Each salesperson has a job to explain what their product can do for them.

One last lesson for you. Don't slam your competition. In sales the most successful are those who take the high road.
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