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After a lot of research and consideration, my wife and I are looking at homes only in Winnetka, Kenilworth, and East Wilmette. We are currently renting in the city and have a baby, and we wish to buy before prices and mortgage rates rise higher. We are fortunate to have a budget between $1.1MM and $1.3MM. We hope to buy a house where we can raise our family for the long-term. We've read the relevant posts / threads on this forum, but would you please give us advice on which specific neighborhood / school district we should buy in? Here's more information about us that might help you: We'll be sending our child (and any future children) to public schools, and we'd like to know which specific school district offers the most rigorous education and has the highest-achieving students. My wife, who works in the Loop, will need to have a short walk to the Metra train. Because she works, she also wishes to live in a neighborhood where it is not unusual for mothers to have full-time careers. I will be commuting by car into the city on the Edens and would prefer to avoid dealing with too much in-town traffic on my way to the Expressway. With regard to schools, we've heard good things about Sears (Kenilworth), but our budget means that we'd probably be limited to living in West Kenilworth, where the houses are generally smaller and less attractive than those in Winnetka or East Wilmette. Kenilworth also seems to be much sleepier than the other two towns (certainly Kenilworth's park district pales in comparison). Is being in the Sears school district worth these trade-offs? By contrast, much of East Wilmette is absolutely gorgeous, but do Central elementary and the Wilmette middle schools match Kenilworth's and Winnetka's schools in quality? Winnetka's Greeley and Hubbard Woods elementary schools are within lovely neighborhoods, but my wife worries about Winnetka's reputation for materialism and homogeneity. Are her concerns well-founded? She points out that at least Sears has the more modest homes in West Kenilworth to add a bit of economic diversity to that district. Finally, since my wife and I work full-time, we would appreciate our kids being able to walk to activities, sports, school, etc., to minimize parental chauffeuring needs. Where exactly should we buy? Thank you for your advice!
Your questions are very typical of young city families moving here.
Off the top of my head the Hubbard Woods section of Winnetka seems that it would meet your criteria. Close to the train and Edens, In Winnetka you don't have to deal with much traffic getting to the Edens. There is a more when traveling from East Wilmette.
While all of the areas you mentioned are lovely and do have great schools you are correct about Kenilworth. "Sleepy" and not much to the PD. However Kenilworth residents often use Wilmette or Winnetka PD but then don't have resident priority and have higher fees.
As far as other working Moms, really hard to pinpoint any specific area where there are more working Moms than other areas. (Yes I know ALL Moms work!)
Regarding your wife's concern about Winnetka's reputation "materialism and homogeneity" it is important to keep in mind that people are people and one can and will find people who are materialistic everywhere! Yes there is "homogeneity" on the North Shore. The people here are very well educated, typically successful, interesting and pleasant to be around. Kenilworth is probably the least diverse partially because of it's small size. There are homes in Winnetka that are very comparable to those in west Kenilworth - more in the "modest' category.
Because of Winnetka's size it is very easy for kids to get to local activities. If one lives in East Wilmette, getting to say the skating rink by biking presents more of a challenge.
What you really need is an experienced, LOCAL broker to help you and your family. Feel free to private message me. Good luck!
Last edited by Rlest8; 09-14-2013 at 10:21 AM..
Reason: typo
I am a little perplexed by someone with a relatively "modest for the Northshore" budget being wiling to consider only the most expensive towns in the region. Especially given the fact that the OP is a two income household I wonder if they might not be wise to consider a wider range of communities where a) their budget will go farther b) they are likely to have more neighbors with a similar family situation c) there truly is a wider range of residents.
Far be it for me to suggest that wanting the best education is other than a worthy goal but unless the OP has some special connections to the aforementioned areas it might be wise to expand one's search to cover a wider area that would include other desirable towns. Even from a simple "availability of inventory" it seems unwise to rule out Wilmette or the portions of Northbrook / Glenview that feed into New Trier if that is you goal. If access to Chicago's Loop is part of your decision then there is no valid reason to exclude town like Hinsdale or Clarendon Hills that served by the excellent D181 & D86 schools. Instead of being able to choose from literally less than a dozen homes in your price range in the three areas mentioned you would be able choose from about 6x that...
Of course if work or family ties make a commute from other than the aforementioned towns a challenge I might also point out that the lower priced homes in the more costly towns are NOT uniformly "good deals" -- if you look at the relatively high maintenance costs that are associated with older homes and factor the sometimes rather high property taxes it is not at all uncommon to be committing a fairly significant sum to annual costs and thus it makes a lot of sense to consider a wide range of options. I know more than a few folks that have been dismayed to learn the committments that come with older house can lead to rather substantial cost.
If the OP is seeking a modicum of economic diversity and a more "democratic" (small D) atmosphere then I would suggest east Wilmette over the other two areas. After fourth grade the kids will go to village-wide schools which include the Asian and Jewish areas on the west side of the village as well as the lower-priced but still very expensive area of central Wilmette where I live. By the I think $1.1 to $1.3 million budget is more than adequate for east Wilmette unless the OP insists on new construction; I've seen very nice east Wilmette houses in the $800-900 range. It's not 2007 any more.
Also, the southern part of east Wilmette, south of Lake Street, is more modestly priced than the elite CAGE area (Chestnut, Ashland, Greenwood, Elmwood) to the north, and $1.1-1.3M is probably above median there. I would avoid the apartment heavy area within a block of the "L" station at 4th and Linden.
I am a little perplexed by someone with a relatively "modest for the Northshore" budget being wiling to consider only the most expensive towns in the region. Especially given the fact that the OP is a two income household I wonder if they might not be wise to consider a wider range of communities where a) their budget will go farther b) they are likely to have more neighbors with a similar family situation c) there truly is a wider range of residents.
Far be it for me to suggest that wanting the best education is other than a worthy goal but unless the OP has some special connections to the aforementioned areas it might be wise to expand one's search to cover a wider area that would include other desirable towns. Even from a simple "availability of inventory" it seems unwise to rule out Wilmette or the portions of Northbrook / Glenview that feed into New Trier if that is you goal. If access to Chicago's Loop is part of your decision then there is no valid reason to exclude town like Hinsdale or Clarendon Hills that served by the excellent D181 & D86 schools. Instead of being able to choose from literally less than a dozen homes in your price range in the three areas mentioned you would be able choose from about 6x that...
Of course if work or family ties make a commute from other than the aforementioned towns a challenge I might also point out that the lower priced homes in the more costly towns are NOT uniformly "good deals" -- if you look at the relatively high maintenance costs that are associated with older homes and factor the sometimes rather high property taxes it is not at all uncommon to be committing a fairly significant sum to annual costs and thus it makes a lot of sense to consider a wide range of options. I know more than a few folks that have been dismayed to learn the committments that come with older house can lead to rather substantial cost.
Chet,
Thanks for your reply. Our budget of $1.1MM -$1.3MM takes into account the fact that we are a two income household (we could theoretically afford more). We have relatives on the north shore, so while we like the Western Suburbs, we prefer to focus on Winnetka, Kenilworth, and east Wilmette. My wife doesn't want to live north of Winnetka because she worries about the length of her Metra commute. We are originally from the East Coast, so we also have a (perhaps irrational) desire to be close to the lake, since it at least resembles the ocean. We've thus ruled out areas west of the Edens Expressway, whether or not they feed into New Trier.
So that leaves my original question to you: given our budget, our desire for the best public education, our preference for a highly walkable community (both for my wife to walk to the Metra and for our kids to walk/bike to school/sports/activities), my hope to avoid too much in-town traffic on my way to the Edens, and my wife's fear of too much materialism/homogeneity, which specific north shore neighborhood or elementary school district would you recommend?
Frankly you ain't gonna get true lakefront in any town served by any desirable district for your budget. So if you think you'll be strolling down to the Lake for dips before or after work / a quickie regatta with the neighb's you are deluding yourself...
If you've spent even the most modest amount of time looking at homes and the folks that live in the areas you indicate a preference for you will soon realize that stay-at-home moms (and dads) / single income households outnumber two income households by probably 20:1 or more, and economic diversity is extremely narrow in these areas. Honestly just pushing your search boundaries a little bit west / south ought to take in many more places that would include more people that resemble not the 1% but extend maybe all the way down to the top tenth or so of earners...
Believe me I have absolutely nothing against folks that profess a desire for the North Shore over the western suburbs, I just know from first hand experience that the areas you are considering are not going to deliver on the other qualities you claim to want -- I have helped people find home that are served by New Trier at prices half of your budget and those areas do exhibit a much great likelihood of having residents where two earners are doing everything they can to ensure their kids the best education. I further have helped folks locate homes in more affordable areas where their access to the waterfront of Lake Michigan is greatly enhanced, yes it is a longer commute from Highland Park or Lake Bluff to the Loop but in your price range that is the trade off that some will make. Certainly the history of many formerly industrial areas on Long Island Sound is far different than any of this region's North Shore communities that have always been exclusively residential communities with a predominately well educated white collar workforce. No doubt your in-laws can further explain this to you.
Given the relative limited range of businesses closest to the Wilmette Metra station I am reluctant to call it truly as "walkable" as places like Evanston (or even Highland Park) and frankly the other towns you listed have even fewer options in their business district.
As I said it is not just that you won't find much inventory in your price range, it is that the whole layout of these downs is geared toward a fairly narrow market. While I personally like many of the houses that are available I am not sure that a family with two working parents and a single child would really be interested in the kinds of places that exist in these towns, the mix of older, potentially costly / time consuming to maintain places and more recently built but less authentically charming places are still orders of magnitude less costly than the true lakefront mansions :
Heading north to Glencoe while keeping you inside New Trier expands the choice a little, but again business district is much much more limited than Wilmette and trains are a bit longer commute to the Loop:
In my experience it is absolutely uncommon for more than a tiny number of households in any of these areas to be two income households.
Really without doing some in-the-car-at-rushhour observation of who is coming / going I doubt you will be able to find all the things you want in the area you've indicated.
Finally, as I have said before in other threads about schools, when you get to the point where you've already winnowed out the truly awfully schools in parts of the state with very limited resources and parents with little knowledge about how to evaluate successful education and start to say "this school is .00235 points on average higher performing than this other school" you sorta miss the whole point of ranking schools -- both the most liberal and most conservative education thinkers tend agree that postive achievement / improving trends are all but inevitable with healthy motivated students and negative declining trends are almost inexorably tied to areas in turmoil. Even the kind of subtle differences that I sometimes remind folks to look for like foreign language instruction, art and music are all remarkably excellent in pretty much all the desirable top tier schools. Who really benefits from saying "this school has taken the #1 ranking statewide ten times and this one has taken it only nine"? Are there differences in the kinds of parents that come from one of the feeder schools in Northbrook /West Wilmette vs those in Glencoe / Kenilworth? Almost certainly. Has anyone conclusively studied whether the influences of such parents are uniformly negative or positive? Not to my knowledge and frankly given the shifting nature of who the people in either area are I doubt any such conclusions are more than fleeting snapshots ...
Last edited by chet everett; 09-14-2013 at 10:21 PM..
I'll keep this brief and on point...the type of living situation you desire is absolutely attainable on the North Shore. My husband and I purchased a home 2 years ago in the McKenzie school district in Wilmette for all the same reasons, and are thrilled with our decision. This area is roughly located between Greenbay and Ridge Roads, and Isabella St. and Kenilworth Ave.
While there is a substantial amount of parental involvement in the school (which is a big reason people love it here) I was happy to see that I am not alone as a working mom. Your price range will afford you a wonderful home to raise your children, and there is a decent range of home prices/incomes here.
I also sell homes in the area and am well versed on your options. While the inventory is currently limited, I expect that to improve as homeowners see the values steadily increasing.
Have a fabulous day!
~ julie
Last edited by Julie Tag; 09-15-2013 at 09:05 AM..
Without being too snarky, the Chicago based agents of @tproperties are well known for self promotion and tendency to say whatever it takes to make a sale.
While I have no reason to doubt that Ms. Tag lives in Wilmette I would point out that among the recent sales she lists on the on the atproperties web site none are on the North Shore in the OP's price range. http://www.atproperties.com/agents/JulieTag/recentsales
I would further point out that the hours that many residential real estate agents work and the compromises they must make are rather different than those of traditional office based workers that rely on commuter trains. To be sure the challenges of such a career choice are not any "easier" but the fact is that greater than 75% of the work that residential real estate agents do involved cell phone conservations and email that can literally be done from anywhere and the remaining 25% or so of the job involves approximately equal parts spent on paperwork than can be done from home and driving to meet clients at potential homes. Of course much of the client contact happens outside of normal business hours which presents its own challenges. I stand by my assertion that the OP is not likely to find the specific set of desires they wish.
Finally the forum Terms of Service prohibit direct advertising / links to agent contacts.
Last edited by chet everett; 09-15-2013 at 08:32 AM..
It is not my objective to solicit a client in this forum, as the majority of my business is by referral at this point. My incentive was to speak to someone who is earnestly seeking advice and information, and I believe being misled by a narrow viewpoint.
The hours I spend on my career are irrelevant to the OP's situation, and not worthy of a retort. Additionally, the assertions made about my integrity are false and insulting, and do not deserve a response.
As far as the website's rules on direct solicitation, that was an oversight on my part and my contact info has been removed.
Good luck Geo'!
Last edited by Julie Tag; 09-15-2013 at 09:22 AM..
Without being too snarky, the Chicago based agents of @tproperties are well known for self promotion and tendency to say whatever it takes to make a sale.
While I have no reason to doubt that Ms. Tag lives in Wilmette I would point out that among the recent sales she lists on the on the atproperties web site none are on the North Shore in the OP's price range. Highland Park Real Estate agent | Julie Tag | @properties
I would further point out that the hours that many residential real estate agents work and the compromises they must make are rather different than those of traditional office based workers that rely on commuter trains. To be sure the challenges of such a career choice are not any "easier" but the fact is that greater than 75% of the work that residential real estate agents do involved cell phone conservations and email that can literally be done from anywhere and the remaining 25% or so of the job involves approximately equal parts spent on paperwork than can be done from home and driving to meet clients at potential homes. Of course much of the client contact happens outside of normal business hours which presents its own challenges. I stand by my assertion that the OP is not likely to find the specific set of desires they wish.
Finally the forum Terms of Service prohibit direct advertising / links to agent contacts.
Well said Chet! The OP may already be working with an agent but if not should choose carefully. A few @agents are experienced and know the NS market but most on the NS are new from the city and are giving very poor advice! I personally know of several buyers and sellers who recently dumped their @ agents for this very reason. @ is transaction oriented not client oriented. The firm is big into self-promo and run cheesy "lifestyle" ads like women sitting in their living rooms sipping champagne in their pearls. Yeah cause that's what we all do here all day. I believe that portraying that image of the NS actually is harmful. It reinforces the negative image of the NS that everyone is filthy rich and snobbish.
I must disagree with you assertion that the OP will not find what they want and that the inventory doesn't exist. A quick look in the MLS reveals that there are 70 single family homes active in the MLS in Wilmette and Winnetka priced from 600k - $1.3 Also in Winnetka nearly 37% of the households are 2 income families with both parents working outside the home. The OP and his family certainly can stroll to lake from almost any area of Winnetka given that there are 3 swimming beaches not just one as in Wilmette.
In my opinion the OP should concentrate on Winnetka, perhaps specifically Hubbard Woods.
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